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Originally Posted by UncleAl Petroleum does not contain odd-numbered alkanes - and certainly not in thermodyanmic equilibrium concentrations. Your source is lying. Uncle Al will make it easy for you: PETROLEUM IS MADE BY GOD. Any obvious empirical inconsistencies are now tests of faith. Take your propaganda and go away. http://www.me.berkeley.edu/diamond/s...ro/cphased.htm
3500 C and 2.2 million psi for geodynamic diamond formation 100 miles down? Petroleum does not survive 200 C diagenesis. Diamond C-12/C-13 isotope ratio is nothing like petroleum C-12/C-13 ratio. You are an idiot. |
You are surely no scientist or petrochemist or you wouldn't have to expressd yourself in such hostile [and ignorant] comments such as posted:
http://www.chemcases.com/fuels/fuels-b.htm
This link debunks your claim entirely about temperatures but in the safe bet you won't read it let me post a quote to consider:
"A reaction that CAN occur, will NOT OCCUR if the activation energy is not available to bring the reactant to the "transition state". This process, just like many spontaneous process does not occur at modest temperatures".
And the process in question is called hydrocarbon cracking, a process in which petroleum and its components are subjected to temperatures as high as 400c in order to crack the hydrocarbon chain and elicit more gasoline at which will burn at higher octane and keep your engine from knocking.
As for diamonds being formed at high temperature and pressure..have you heard of carbon vapor deposition? it a fast way to make daimonds of jewel quality by artifical means..but really the means used is more like earth's natural way than the traditional view you hold.
http://clearlyexplained.com/news/nat...1705_2005.html
These new fast diamonds can be grown about five times faster than commercially available diamonds produced by the standard high temperature and high pressure method.
The Carnegie process growth rate is about 100 micrometers per hour and can reach upto 300 micrometers per hour.
Typically produced synthetic diamond is yellow and most CVD diamond is brown, limiting their optical uses but this team has made colorless single-crystal diamonds, transparent from the ultraviolet to infrared wavelengths with their CVD process.
Dr. Russell Hemley who leads the diamond effort at Carnegie explained that "High-quality crystals over 3 carats are very difficult to produce using the conventional approach," He further explained about others working on the problems of creating diamonds adding that "Several groups have begun to grow diamond single crystals by CVD, but large, colorless, and flawless ones remain a challenge. Our fabrication of 10-carat, half-inch, CVD diamonds is a major breakthrough."
The results were reported at the 10th International Conference on New Diamond Science and Technology, Tsukuba, Japan, on May 12, and will be reported at the Applied Diamond Congress in Argonne,
here's a lecture from someone who I don't believe justifies the idiot label...
From "The Global Energy Outlook for the 21st Century," a lecture delivered on May 21, 2003 by Peter R. Odell, Professor Emeritus at the Erasmus University in Rotterdam, where he was the Director of the Center for International Energy Studies:
Finally, a word of caution on the essential fragility of a study on the very long-term future for the world's energy supply which accepts without question the validity of the original 18th century hypothesis that all oil and gas resources have been generated from biological matter in the chemical and thermodynamic environments of the earth's crust. There is an alternative theory - already 50 years old - which suggests an inorganic origin for additional oil and gas. This alternative view is widely accepted in the countries of the former Soviet Union where, it is claimed, "large volumes of hydrocarbons are being produced from the pre-Cambrian crystalline basement". Recent applications of the inorganic theory have, however, also led to claims for the possibility of the Middle East fields being able to produce oil "forever" and to the concept of repleting oil and gas fields in the gulf of Mexico. More generally, it is argued, "all giant fields are most logically explained by inorganic theory because simple calculations of potential hydrocarbon contents in sediments shows that organic materials are too few to supply the volumes of petroleum involved."
The significance of the alternative theory of the origin of additional oil and gas potential is self evident for the issue of the longevity of hydrocarbons' production potential and production costs in the 21st century. Instead of having to consider a stock reserve already accumulated in a finite number of so-called oil and gas plays, the possibility emerges of evaluating hydrocarbons as essentially renewable resources in the context of whatever demand developments may emege. If fields do replete because the oil and gas extracted from them is abyssal and abiotic (based on chemical reactions under specific thermodynamic conditions deep in the earth's mantle), then extraction costs should not rise as production from such fields continues for an indefinite period. Neither do estimates of reserves, reserves-to-production ratios and annual rates of discovery and additions to reserves have any of the importance correctly attributed to them in evaluating the future supply prospects under the organic theory of oil and gas' derivation. In essence, the "ball park" in which consideration of the issues relating to the future of oil and gas has hitherto been made would no longer remain relevant.
[more:
http://www.clingendael.nl/ciep/pdf/O...1_lecture.pdf]
here's a news article which reports exactly what i posted here...
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/05/317075.shtml
Dismissal of the Claims of a Biological Connection for Natural Petroleum
"The claims which have traditionally been put forward to argue a connection between natural petroleum and biological matter have been subjected to scientific scrutiny and have been established to be baseless. The outcome of such scrutiny comes hardly as a surprise, given recognition of the constraints of thermodynamics upon the genesis of hydrocarbons.
If liquid hydrocarbons might evolve from biological detritus in the thermodynamic regime of the crust of the Earth, we could all expect to go to bed at night in our dotage, with white hair (or, at least, whatever might remain of same), a spreading waistline, and all the undesirable decrepitude of age, and to awake in the morning, clear eyed, with our hair returned of the color of our youth, with a slim waistline, a strong, flexible body, and with our sexual vigor restored. Alas, such is not to be. The merciless laws of thermodynamics do not accommodate folklore fables. Natural petroleum has no connection with biological matter."
(Scientific Paper Published In 'Energia')
BTW..Russia is not only the world's largest oil producer but the one of the world's major diamond miners and exporters and if I am an idiot I am in good company...
J. F. Kenney
Joint Institute of The Physics of the Earth - Russian Academy of Sciences
Gas Resources Corporation, 11811 North Freeway, Houston, TX 77060, U.S.A.
Ac. Ye. F. Shnyukov
National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine
Vladimirskaya Street 56, 252.601 Kiev, Ukraine
V. A. Krayushkin
Institute of Geological Sciences
O. Gonchara Street 55-B, 01054 Kiev, Ukraine
I. K. Karpov
Institute of Geochemistry - Russian Academy of Sciences
Favorskii Street 1a, 664.033 Irkutsk, RUSSIA
V. G. Kutcherov
Russian State University of Oil and Gas
Leninskii Prospect 65, 117.917 Moscow, Russia
I. N. Plotnikova
National Petroleum Company of Tatarstan (TatNeft S.A.)
Butlerov Street 45-54, 423.020 Kazan, Tatarstan, RUSSIA
1. Introduction.
With recognition that the laws of thermodynamics prohibit spontaneous evolution of liquid hydrocarbons in the regime of temperature and pressure characteristic of the crust of the Earth, one should not expect there to exist legitimate scientific evidence that might suggest that such could occur. Indeed, and correctly, there exists no such evidence.
Nonetheless, and surprisingly, there continue to be often promulgated diverse claims purporting to constitute "evidence" that natural petroleum somehow evolves (miraculously) from biological matter. In this short article, such claims are briefly subjected to scientific scrutiny, demonstrated to be without merit, and dismissed.
The claims which purport to argue for some connection between natural petroleum and biological matter fall into roughly two classes: the "look-like/come-from" claims; and the "similar(recondite)-properties/come-from" claims.
The "look-like/come-from" claims apply a line of unreason exactly as designated: Such argue that, because certain molecules found in natural petroleum "look like" certain other molecules found in biological systems, then the former must "come-from" the latter. Such notion is, of course, equivalent to asserting that elephant tusks evolve because those animals must eat piano keys.
In some instances, the "look-like/come-from" claims assert that certain molecules found in natural petroleum actually are biological molecules, and evolve only in biological systems. These molecules have often been given the spurious name "biomarkers."
The scientific correction must be stated unequivocally: There have never been observed any specifically biological molecules in natural petroleum, except as contaminants. Petroleum is an excellent solvent for carbon compounds; and, in the sedimentary strata from which petroleum is often produced, natural petroleum takes into solution much carbon material, including biological detritus. However, such contaminants are unrelated to the petroleum solvent.
The claims about "biomarkers" have been thoroughly discredited by observations of those molecules in the interiors of ancient, abiotic meteorites, and also in many cases by laboratory synthesis under imposed conditions mimicking the natural environment. In the discussion below, the claims put forth about porphyrin and isoprenoid molecules are addressed particularly, because many "look-like/come-from" claims have been put forth for those compounds.
The "similar(recondite)-properties/come-from" claims involve diverse, odd phenomena with which persons not working directly in a scientific profession would be unfamiliar. These include the "odd-even abundance imbalance" claims, the "carbon isotope" claims, and the "optical-activity" claims. The first, the "odd-even abundance imbalance" claims, are demonstrated to be utterly unrelated to any biological property. The second, "carbon isotope" claims, are shown to depend upon measurement of an obscure property of carbon fluids which cannot reliably be considered a measure of origin. The third, the "optical-activity" claims, deserve particular note; for the observations of optical activity in natural petroleum have been trumpeted loudly for years as a "proof" of some "biological origin" of petroleum. Those claims have been thoroughly discredited decades ago by observation of optical activity in the petroleum material extracted from the interiors of carbonaceous meteorites.
6. Conclusion.
The claims which have traditionally been put forward to argue a connection between natural petroleum and biological matter have been subjected to scientific scrutiny and have been established to be baseless. The outcome of such scrutiny comes hardly as a surprise, given recognition of the constraints of thermodynamics upon the genesis of hydrocarbons.
If liquid hydrocarbons might evolve from biological detritus in the thermodynamic regime of the crust of the Earth, we could all expect to go to bed at night in our dotage, with white hair (or, at least, whatever might remain of same), a spreading waistline, and all the undesirable decrepitude of age, and to awake in the morning, clear eyed, with our hair returned of the color of our youth, with a slim waistline, a strong, flexible body, and with our sexual vigor restored. Alas, such is not to be. The merciless laws of thermodynamics do not accommodate folklore fables. Natural petroleum has no connection with biological matter.
However, recognition of such fact leaves unanswered the conundrums which eluded the scientific community for more than a century: How does natural petroleum evolve ? And from where does natural petroleum come ?
The theoretical resolution of these questions had to await development of the most modern techniques of quantum statistical mechanics. The experimental demonstration of the required equipment has been only recently available. The following article substantially answers these questions.
Published in Energia, 2001, 22/3, 26-34.
http://www.gasresources.net/DisposalBioClaims.htm
These were their sources and reference texts..
1 M. H. Studier, R. Hayatsu and E. Anders, "Organic compounds in carbonaceous chondrites", Science, 1965, 149, 1455-1459.
2 B. Nagy, Carbonaceous Meteorites, Elsevier, Amsterdam, 1975.
3 G. P. Vdovykin, Carbonaceous Matter of Meteorites (Organic Compounds, Diamonds, Graphite), Nauka Press, Moscow, 1976.
4 B. Mason, "The carbonaceous chondrites", Space Science Review, 1963, 1, 621-640.
5 C. A. Ponnamperuma, "The carbonaceous meteorites", in Carbonaceous Meteorites, ed. B. Nagy, Elsevier, Amsterdam, 1975, 747.
6 J. D. Bernal, "Significance of carbonaceous meteorites in theories on the origin of life", Nature, 1961, 190, 129-131.
7 E. Gelphi and J. Oro, "Organic compounds in meteorites - IV. Gas chromatographic - mass spectrometric studies of isoprenoids and other isomeric alkanes in carbonaceous chordrites", Geochim. Cosmochim. Acta, 1970, 34, 981-994.
8 G. W. Hodgson and B. L. Baker, "Evidence for porphyrins in the Orgueil meteorite", Nature, 1964, 202, 125-131.
9 V. A. Krayushkin, The Abiotic, Mantle Origin of Petroleum, Naukova Dumka, Kiev, 1984.
10 V. B. Porfir'yev, "Inorganic origin of petroleum", American Association of Petroleum Geologists Bulletin, 1974, 58, 3-33.
11 P. N. Kropotkin, Y. I. Pikovskii, B. M. Valyaev, K. B. Serebrovskaya, A. P. Rudenko, A. L. Lapidus, E. B. Chekaliuk and G. N. Dolenko, Journal of D. I. Mendeleev, All-Union Chem. Soc., Moscow, 1986.
12 M. H. Studier, R. Hayatsu and E. Anders, "Origin of organic matter in the early solar system: I. Hydrocarbons", Geochim. Cosmochim. Acta, 1968, 32, 151-173.
13 G. P. Vdovykin, Meteorites, Nauka, Moscow, 1968.
14 G. W. Hodgson and B. L. Baker, "Porphyrin abiogenesis from pyrole and formaldehyde under simulated geochemical conditions", Nature, 1967, 216, 29-32.
15 F. K. North, Petroleum Geology, Allen & Unwin, Boston, 1985.
16 B. Tissot and D. H. Welte, Petroleum Formation and Occurrence, Springer, Berlin, 1981.
17 R. C. Selley, Elements of Petroleum Geology, W. H. Freeman, New York, 1995.
18 T. S. Zemanian, Chemical Kinetics and Equilibria of Hydrocarbon Mixtures at Advanced Temperatures and Pressures, Cornell, Ithaca, 1985.
19 J. F. Kenney and U. K. Deiters, "The evolution of multicomponent systems at high pressures: IV. The genesis of optical activity in high-density, abiotic fluids", Phys. Chem. Chem. Phys., 2000, 2, 3163-3174.
20 L. Pasteur, "Sur la dissymétrie moleculaire", C.R. Hebd. Séanc, 1848, 26, 535.
21 L. Pasteur, "Sur la dissymétrie moleculaire", in Leçons de chimie professées en 1860 par M. M. Pasteur, Cahours, Wurtz, Berthelot, Sante-claire Deville, Barral, et Dumas, Paris 1861, Hachette, Paris, 1886.
22 M. H. Engel and B. Nagy, "Distribution and enantiomeric composition of amino acids in the Murchison meteorite", Nature, 1982, 296, 837-840.
23 M. H. Engel, S. A. Macko and J. A. Silfer, "Carbon isotope composition of individual amino acids in the Murchison meteorite", Nature, 1990, 348, 47-49.
24 M. H. Engel and S. A. Macko, "Isotopic evidence for extraterrestrial non-racemic amino acids in the Murchison meteorite", Nature, 1997, 389, 265-268.
25 S. Pizzarello and J. R. Cronin, "Non-racemic amino acids in the Murray and Murchison meteorites", Geochim. Cosmochim. Acta, 2000, 64, 329-338.
26 B. Nagy, "Optical Activity in the Orgueil meteorite", Science, 1965, 150, 1846.
27 U. Colombo, F. Gazzarini and R. Gonfiantini, "Die Variationen in der chemischen und isotopen Zusammensetzung von Erdgas aus Suditalien", Leipzig, 1967, vol. Vortrag ASTI-67.
28 E. M. Galimov, Isotope Zusammensetzung des Kohlenstoffe aus Gassen der Erdrinde, Leipzig, 1967.
29 V. A. Krayushkin, "Origins, patterns, dimensions, and distributions of the world petroleum potential", Georesursy, 2000, 3, 14-18.
30 P. Szatmari, "Petroleum formation by Fischer-Tropsch synthesis in plate tectonics", Bull. A.A.P.G., 1989, 73, 989-996.
For further reading....
http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr59.html
Speaking of propagandist..any chance you or a family member works for an oil company?
As for God creating petroleum..I can live with that..I think he gave it to the Devil to use just to see who could be tempted...
-Zohaar
(or a nice cabernet if it is after 5:00)
