Megacryometeors

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by freeztar

And of course, what theory these days would be complete without a link to global warming.

Good grief! Travis's team could stand to research the past and see that this phenom has been around hundreds of years.

Originally Posted by AndyErvin

However, Dubuque had clear skies at the time the ice fell, said Andy Ervin, a meteorologist with the National Weather Service in Davenport. "There was nothing unusual going on," he said.

except maybe for 50 pound chunks of ice falling from the sky.

Oh, but I'm only bashing them because Global Warming is frying my brain. Clearly global warming is the cause of everything. Who could be responsible?

Originally Posted by DanaCarvey

Oh, I don't know....maybe SATAN!

[freeztar]

Yeah, it's pretty sad that global warming has become the scape goat for everything unexplainable. It really hurts the true science behind it.

[InfiniteNow]

While I agree that it's frustrating to see many events on the planet immediately described only by global climate change and it's impact, it would appear that the increased frequency of these monster hailstones is, in fact, related to the changing climate. We also know that humans impact climate change, so... you decide.


megacryometeors, climate change, global warming, chunks of ice, blocks of ice, hailstones, aerolitos

The increase of these extreme atmospheric events, their hydrochemical and isotopic composition (clearly tropospheric), and the anomalous tropopause behaviour and other significant factors detected coinciding with the ice falls (increase in humidity (near saturation but with no condensation), ozone anomalies and wind shear), all suggest the hypothesis that megacryometeors could be a new type of fingerprint (geoindicator) of Climate Change.

S&TR | March 2004: Tropopause Height Becomes Another Climate-Change "Fingerprint"

The tropopause lies about 18 kilometers above the Earth’s surface at the equator in the summer and 8 kilometers above the poles in winter. The height of the tropopause is sensitive to temperature changes in the troposphere and stratosphere. Warming the troposphere or cooling the stratosphere tends to increase tropopause height. Conversely, cooling the troposphere or warming the stratosphere lowers tropopause height.
<...>
The simulations with individual forcings indicate that human-induced changes in ozone and well-mixed greenhouse gases are responsible for about 80 percent of the tropopause height changes over the 20th century. Says Santer, “Our best understanding is that the recent tropopause height increase is due to two factors: warming of the troposphere, which is primarily caused by increasing concentrations of well-mixed greenhouse gases, and cooling of the stratosphere, which is caused mainly by depletion of stratospheric ozone.”
<...>
The height of the tropopause provides another fingerprint of human effects on climate, and Santer says it deserves further scientific attention. Previous fingerprints of Earth’s changing climate have been evident in surface temperatures, ocean heat content, polar ice cover, and atmospheric pressure patterns. “What we’re now seeing with the rising tropopause and warming troposphere is that many different aspects of the climate system are telling us a consistent story—human activities are altering the Earth’s climate. All of these changes are consistent with our scientific should be responding to anthropogenic forcings. They are not consistent with the changes we would expect to occur from natural forcings alone.”

If you want to better understand the turbulance and different measurements of the the Earth's atmoshpere, you should check out the work of John Cho from MIT.

Publication List of John Y. N. Cho

See also:
human impact on troposphere - Google Scholar


You know... that, or it's all just a really long-term and well executed marketing campaign by the good folks at Reddy Ice.

[Racoon]

Just a thought, but what if it could be debris from a comet trail?



The Gods are having a big intergalactic snowball fight.

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by InfiniteNow

While I agree that it's frustrating to see many events on the planet immediately described only by global climate change and it's impact, it would appear that the increased frequency of these monster hailstones is, in fact, related to the changing climate.

It might appear that way, but I would question the "in fact" part.

We also know that humans impact climate change, so... you decide.

From the same sources you posted I found this pdf from "Science", where Martinez-Frias said that there are accounts of megacryometeors (MCM) from the mid-19th century. They use that 'fact' to emphasize their disbelief in an airplane originated source. I find the 'fact' at odds with their speculation of anthropogenic climate change.

[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by freeztar

this pdf from "Science", where Martinez-Frias said that there are accounts of megacryometeors (MCM) from the mid-19th century. They use that 'fact' to emphasize their disbelief in an airplane originated source. I find the 'fact' at odds with their speculation of anthropogenic climate change.

Yes, good points. It's not as if we've never had large hail in the past. If one were suggesting that all megacryometeors are the result of human impact on climate, they would be wrong. The contention to which I had hoped to draw attention is that we are experiencing more, and with greater intensity, of these strange hail events than in centuries past.

The evidence currently available seems to indicate that human activities are having measurable impact on the troposphere and mesosphere, this impact resulting in more frequent oddities of weather... like megacryometeors in otherwise clear skies.


It's floodin' down in Texas...

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by InfiniteNow

Yes, good points. It's not as if we've never had large hail in the past. If one were suggesting that all megacryometeors are the result of human impact on climate, they would be wrong. The contention to which I had hoped to draw attention is that we are experiencing more, and with greater intensity, of these strange hail events than in centuries past.

I would contend that as communication pathways have evolved with our growth, we hear of more abnormalities in weather. Anyhow, I would love to see a list of all the confirmed accounts.

The evidence currently available seems to indicate that human activities are having measurable impact on the troposphere and mesosphere, this impact resulting in more frequent oddities of weather... like megacryometeors in otherwise clear skies.


It's floodin' down in Texas...

I do believe that humans influence the atmosphere, however, I have a tough time making the cause-effect leap when talking about aberrant weather trends.

More in a bit...gotta go eat lunch with me lady...

[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by freeztar

Anyhow, I would love to see a list of all the confirmed accounts.

I can't say I'm a huge fan of the site's layout, but you might start here:

hailstones, chunks of ice, blocks of ice, megacryometeors, aerolito

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by InfiniteNow

I can't say I'm a huge fan of the site's layout, but you might start here:

hailstones, chunks of ice, blocks of ice, megacryometeors, aerolito

It's certainly better than nothing, but it only goes back as far as 2001. How can anyone make the claim that the are increased occurrences of MCMs due to climate change?

From the accounts posted at the link above, I counted the following:
2007 - 11
2006 - 11
2005 - 13
2004 - 10
2003 - 4
2002 - 7
2001 - 1

So it appears that there is an upward trend from this limited data set. But, a vast majority of these "accounts" are unconfirmed or untested and their validity is thusly tentative at best imo. Also notice how the older accounts are much less full of substance.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by freeztar

...
So it appears that there is an upward trend from this limited data set. But, a vast majority of these "accounts" are unconfirmed or untested and their validity is thusly tentative at best imo. Also notice how the older accounts are much less full of substance.

I mentioned Charles Fort in passing early on, but it's worth mentioning one of his books specifically in order to put 'strange falls' into perspective.

Originally Posted by wiki

The Book of the Damned was the first published nonfiction work of the author Charles Fort (first edition 1919). Dealing with various types of anomalous phenomena including UFOs, strange falls of both organic and inorganic materials from the sky, odd weather patterns, the possible existence of creatures generally held to be mythological, disappearances of people under strange circumstances, and many other phenomena, the book is historically considered to be the first written in the specific field of anomalistics.

The Book of the Damned - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As with many contoversial authors, one is best served by reading the work itself rather than relying on reviews and commentary by others. I read The Book of the Damned years ago and Fort's speculations aside, it is an outstanding record of reports from both science journals and popular publications such as magazines and newspapers. I heartily recommend it.