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Old 06-04-2007   #31 (permalink)
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Re: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfiniteNow View Post
Bill's point that clicking a link will not directly remove carbon from the atmosphere is correct. However, I don't believe anyone is claiming that it will. What clicking the link does is funnel money to environmentally responsible groups, it funds ideas that will have a positive impact, and provides monetary incentive to make those changes which are necessary. It also provides another method of increasing awareness and getting people involved. But yeah, clicking the link won't directly substract carbon from the atmosphere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Care2 after clicking the link
Thank you! You've offset 1 pound of carbon emissions, roughly the equivalent to your lunch today.
They have a neat marketing scheme. After clicking you are encouraged to support their benevolent sponsors who are donating the money to offset the carbon. You are limited to one click per day (I think). They also have a toolbar that they advertise will make your computer carbon neutral.

Bill


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Old 06-04-2007   #32 (permalink)
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Re: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish

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Originally Posted by TheBigDog View Post
They have a neat marketing scheme. After clicking you are encouraged to support their benevolent sponsors who are donating the money to offset the carbon. You are limited to one click per day (I think). They also have a toolbar that they advertise will make your computer carbon neutral.

Bill
I understand that you think there is a better way to do it, Bill (and I agree). I also understand that many people will think that clicking the link will push the carbon back into the tailpipe of their car and make magic atmosphere fairies crap out a bunch of pixie dust into the oceans making the dolphins play Lucy in the Sky...

However, semantically, how can you be certain their claim is not regarding future carbon additions? Please treat that as rhetorical. I think you know what I mean. Basically, the link is setup under the auspices of helping society and the people and life on it. Maybe we can laugh at the people who don't spend their time and resources more wisely than clicking a link on a website, but laughing at the people setting up that website is wrong and is just as silly, since at least they're trying to do something. Buckets fill with drops of water and whatnot...

Last edited by InfiniteNow; 06-04-2007 at 08:02 PM..
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Old 12-14-2007   #33 (permalink)
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Smile Re: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish

21:40: The Unnatural History of the Sea
There was a fascinating review/interview with the author of anew book on the sea on the Science Show (Robyn Williams ABC Oz) today; talking about the last 1,000 years of fishing and the future of the oceans
We have really buggered things up badly.
Well worth a listen. The whole show was excellent (probably only transcript available now)
21:40: The Unnatural History of the Sea
Science Show
A good British review of the book is here
The Arran Voice - The Unnatural History of the Sea


Quote:
The carbon dioxide produced by humans is turning the oceans into weak acids. This century, the seas will be more acidic than they have been for 20 million years.
Aquatic Food Sources May Be Threatened By Rising Carbon Dioxide


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Last edited by Michaelangelica; 01-26-2009 at 05:05 PM.. Reason: add another bit + pic of book /trnscript comment
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Old 12-15-2007   #34 (permalink)
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Re: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelangelica View Post
21:40: The Unnatural History of the Sea
There was a fascinating review/interview with the author of anew book on the sea on the Science Show (Robyn Williams ABC Oz) today; talking about the last 1,000 years of fishing and the future of the oceans
We have really buggered things up badly.
Well worth a listen. The whole show was excellent
21:40: The Unnatural History of the Sea
Science Show
Great program, Mike. Thanks. Here's the journal cover that is being disucssed in this particular program:




Science/AAAS | About the Cover: 14 December 2007; 318 (5857)






Quote:
Coral polyps with exquisite coral pigments (pocilloporin) remain after bleaching of the southern Great Barrier Reef around Great Keppel Island (Wappaburra), a result of elevated sea temperatures in January 2006. During heat stress, the symbiosis between corals and dinoflagellates fails, leading to mass exodus of the brown plant-like symbionts from the tissues of the coral host. See the Editorial on page 1695, the News Focus on page 1712, and the Review on page 1737. Image: Ove Hoegh-Guldberg, University of Queensland

Last edited by InfiniteNow; 12-15-2007 at 06:13 AM..
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Old 01-07-2008   #35 (permalink)
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Re: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish

This is a sad report.
Humans should thrive on fish.
It should be the food of preference.
Quote:
A study has found that children under the age of six who regularly eat large, predatory fish, such as shark (which is sold as flake), catfish, snapper or barramundi often have mercury levels up to seven times the safe maximum, which can lead to aggressive and regressive behaviour.
For little ones, it's anything but brain food - National - smh.com.au
Don't ask about the PCB's, DDTs, CHs, OPs plastic, alphabet soup chemicals 'cause in Australia we can't test, or don't want to.
We do know that anything out of Sydney harbour is deadly because of the crap Dow (then Union Carbide ) left there while producing agricultural chemicals for the Vietnam war. We still need to wait 20 years to see how the Sydney Fishermen's kids, with massive doses of chemicals in their blood, turn out. Chemicals that can only be excreted in fat (mother's milk).

How can we do this to ourselves?
We came from the sea.
There is only one blue planet.
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Old 01-07-2008   #36 (permalink)
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Re: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish

The problem with capitalism is that it ensures that everything dies, and everything gets fished to extinction.

Imagine cod gets up to £500 a kilo. Will it stop the fishermen? Not a chance! Because the higher price ensures that people will still fish it! As long as people are prepared to pay money for it, then it ensures the fish will be wiped out.

See Rare Tuna - Food & Dining (washingtonian.com) for an example of this - those Bluefin aren't going to last long. There is another one I read in New Scientist recently, where there is a fleet of boats that sail out *every day* to fish for a fish that is nearly extinct. Landing one of these fish earns the boat $600, and the fish will sell to a rich businessman in Japan, via various fences and ner'do-wells and, eventually, a sushi chef, for tens of thousands of dollars. $600 is more than the fisherman would earn in two years normally, working the land. Hence dozens sail every day, catching not even one fish a week between them!

Quotas make little difference to anyone, and, in fact, make things even worse. Imagine you are a modern fisherman, with your huge pot of crab, a table of iced cod and other fish, or whatever. You reel them in, and kick and squash the little buggers into the hold. If it isn't full enough to meet your quota, you carry on. Now, once you start getting near your quota, what do you do? You start only pulling out the more profitable species. So the smaller crabs, the eels, etc. get dumped, while the lobsters and bigger crabs get to take their place. But those smaller crabs and cheaper fish are half frozen, bashed and battered, and have a reduced chance of living any length of time.

And, if the boat simply meals (grinds them up) them before dumping, they can be to the pound accurate with the quota, even on the worst of trips! Yet when it's a good trip, they can replace them with higher value stock! With only a negative effect to the environment.

Size limits are also counter-productive. One big fish can produce a million or more roe, but they all get caught! The only selection pressure on a fish these days is to not be trapped by a huge net - get through the holes and live. Hence, fish are growing to size slower. This makes them more likely to be killed by a seal or whatever, as they are still subject to the normal selection pressures as well.

In fact, natural selection is still working too. The things that eat fish have a reduced food source, so they put more pressure on the few places that trawlers and net-draggers cannot go.

Eventually, every fish that wants to breed will end up on a Nemo style adventure to find another of his own species. And then that will be that.

Forget quotas. The *only* way to protect the Orange Rougher (or whatever) is to pass a world-wide law that limits the price of a fish to £5 (or whatever) because that destroys the incentive. You *have* to fish the common and easy to find species, or else you won't get enough fish to pay your wage bill.

The only other option would be to gene-splice some popular high-priced and rare fish (perhaps ones on the endangered list?) with something that causes temporary impotence, with repeated doses causing the "little soldier" to wither away. Then there would be no demand!


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Old 01-22-2008   #37 (permalink)
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Re: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish

Quote:
Fishermen and Fish Face Extinction in the Mediterranean
"When there's a fire in the woods ... everyone is upset and goes and stops it. In the sea, it's like there's been a fire forever, but no one does a thing," says Mr. Usai.
AlterNet: Water: Fishermen and Fish Face Extinction in the Mediterranean
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Old 01-22-2008   #38 (permalink)
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Re: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish

Don't worry. Nature will balance itself. So one day fishes will fight back. They will eat human in return and then we have to concern about our own population being threatened. Will you thank the Fish then Mike?


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Old 01-22-2008   #39 (permalink)
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Re: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish

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Don't worry. Nature will balance itself. So one day fishes will fight back. They will eat human in return and then we have to concern about our own population being threatened. Will you thank the Fish then Mike?
I doubt man-eating fish will arise to make the balance, but I do agree that nature will balance itself out. If things continue as normal, there will be so much mercury bioaccumulated in fish that they will become inedible, for example.


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Old 01-22-2008   #40 (permalink)
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Re: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish

You never know.

fangtooth - Google Image Search

Enjoy!


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