Water: Where will it come from in 2050?

[belovelife]

i know in the FAQ's
Frequently Asked Questions

Is HAARP capable of affecting the weather?
The HAARP facility will not affect the weather. Transmitted energy in the frequency ranges that will be used by HAARP is not absorbed in either the troposphere or the stratosphere - the two levels of the atmosphere that produce the earth's weather. Electromagnetic interactions only occur in the near-vacuum of the rarefied region above about 70 km known as the ionosphere.
The ionosphere is created and continuously replenished as the sun's radiation interacts with the highest levels of the Earth's atmosphere. The downward coupling from the ionosphere to the stratosphere/troposphere is extremely weak, and no association between natural ionospheric variability and surface weather and climate has been found, even at the extraordinarily high levels of ionospheric turbulence that the sun can produce during a geomagnetic storm. If the ionospheric storms caused by the sun itself don't affect the surface weather, there is no chance that HAARP can do so either.

How long do the effects of ionospheric heating last?
Since the ionosphere is, inherently, a turbulent medium that is being both "stirred up" and renewed by the sun, artificially induced effects are quickly obliterated. Depending on the height within the ionosphere where the effect is originally produced, these effects are no longer detectable after times ranging from less than a second to ten minutes.
A good analogy to this process is dropping a stone into a fast moving stream. The ripples caused by the stone are very quickly lost in the rapidly moving water and, a little farther down the stream, are completely undetectable. A University of Alaska, Geophysical Institute scientist has compared HAARP to an "immersion heater in the Yukon River."

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by belovelife

i know in the FAQ's
Frequently Asked Questions

Is HAARP capable of affecting the weather?
The HAARP facility will not affect the weather. Transmitted energy in the frequency ranges that will be used by HAARP is not absorbed in either the troposphere or the stratosphere - the two levels of the atmosphere that produce the earth's weather. Electromagnetic interactions only occur in the near-vacuum of the rarefied region above about 70 km known as the ionosphere.
The ionosphere is created and continuously replenished as the sun's radiation interacts with the highest levels of the Earth's atmosphere. The downward coupling from the ionosphere to the stratosphere/troposphere is extremely weak, and no association between natural ionospheric variability and surface weather and climate has been found, even at the extraordinarily high levels of ionospheric turbulence that the sun can produce during a geomagnetic storm. If the ionospheric storms caused by the sun itself don't affect the surface weather, there is no chance that HAARP can do so either.

How long do the effects of ionospheric heating last?
Since the ionosphere is, inherently, a turbulent medium that is being both "stirred up" and renewed by the sun, artificially induced effects are quickly obliterated. Depending on the height within the ionosphere where the effect is originally produced, these effects are no longer detectable after times ranging from less than a second to ten minutes.
A good analogy to this process is dropping a stone into a fast moving stream. The ripples caused by the stone are very quickly lost in the rapidly moving water and, a little farther down the stream, are completely undetectable. A University of Alaska, Geophysical Institute scientist has compared HAARP to an "immersion heater in the Yukon River."

Again I ask what is your point? Your post simply confirms what I have already said.

[charles brough]

The idea of a means of extracting moisture from the air seems highly suspect to me---even in a humid climate. Sure, it can be done, but how much energy does it take? That is the crucial question, and it was not even raised!

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by charles brough

The idea of a means of extracting moisture from the air seems highly suspect to me---even in a humid climate. Sure, it can be done, but how much energy does it take? That is the crucial question, and it was not even raised!

Dehumidifiers can consume more than $150 a year in energy, so look for models that are Energy Star-qualified (they'll carry the Energy Star seal), which are 10 to 20 percent more efficient than non-Energy Star units.

ConsumerReports.org - Dehumidifiers can control humidity levels and keep your home free of mold and mildew

Of course they don't say how long they are kept running, but let's assume constant usage.

Let's use an average size of 30 pints per day.
Dehumidifier Basics : ENERGY STAR

That's 10950 pints per year which equates to about $0.014 per pint. That's about 11 cents per gallon. That's pretty cheap.

[charles brough]

Originally Posted by freeztar

ConsumerReports.org - Dehumidifiers can control humidity levels and keep your home free of mold and mildew

Of course they don't say how long they are kept running, but let's assume constant usage.

Let's use an average size of 30 pints per day.
Dehumidifier Basics : ENERGY STAR

That's 10950 pints per year which equates to about $0.014 per pint. That's about 11 cents per gallon. That's pretty cheap.

I admire your providing real research here and agree but only in the sense that 11 cents a gallon is cheap if we buy it in the store. It might be ten times what our municipal water now costs. I imagine the whole issue resides on how long it would take such equipment to pay for itself. People now won't buy a hybrid car if the extra expense take more than three years to pay for itself.

[belovelife]

Energy-Efficient Water Purification

On this line of though I have also heard of wind powere dasalinizaton, wave powered desalinization.

[Michaelangelica]

Did I post this link before?
Sharing Sustainable Solutions.org Information Center for Low-tech sustainability / Air Wells & Dew Ponds
It is from a similar discussion at the Permaculture Forums.
Permaculture discussion forum • View topic - Air Water Harvesting
It seems air water harvesting has been around for thousands of years read Ojo's last post on page 2 of the discussion.

[Michaelangelica]

February 16, 2009
New toolkit helps food manufacturers save water
Photograph of a shower head with a drop of water

The new toolkit will help food manufacturers save water. Image © istockphoto.

A practical new toolkit developed by RMIT University researchers will help food manufacturers cut their water use by identifying the processes that use the most water and the changes they can make to reduce their consumption.
. . .
“Food processing uses more water than any other industry around Australia, consuming more than 241 billion litres of water each year,” Dr Jayasuriya said.

“In Victoria, any businesses that use more than 10 million litres a year must prepare a water-saving plan but smaller firms are exempt from this rule.

“These businesses usually don’t have the expertise or the financial resources necessary to develop water sustainability plans.

“This toolkit will give small business owners a practical understanding of their water use and show them where they can affordably implement water savings.”

RMIT - New toolkit helps food manufacturers save water

To download toolkit go here
Plenty Food Group - The Food Manufacturing Hub Of Melbourne

[Michaelangelica]

Positioning for When Water Runs Out: Part II 54 comments
. . . It is nothing less than amazing to me that somehow 6 billion people sustain life on the roughly 1% of the earth’s water that is not salt water or brackish water (comprising about 97.5%) or encased in polar and glacial ice (about 1.5%).
. . .
We have not yet reached the point of recycling all waste water like the Fremen of Arrakis in Frank Hebert’s brilliant novel Dune, but if we are consigned to endlessly squabble over that fixed 1% in a world where population is anything but fixed, many will die and many more will suffer.

Already, lack of water (or dirty water) is by far the largest disease problem in the world; only 20% of the world's population enjoys the benefits of indoor running water; and every year, the amount of global water polluted equals the water consumed.
. . .
Salt water in ocean and sea is composed of all kinds of elements and minerals we call “salts”: epsom salts, potassium salts, iodine salts, and lots more. Ocean water is about three times as salty as your blood.
. . .
Man is a wily creature and every now and again uses his brain for something besides figuring out how to destroy his nation’s economic system or finding new ways to destroy other inhabitants of the planet
. . .
It may not be too big a stretch to suggest that desalination may prevent more wars than the United Nations ever has. (OK, that would be a single digit, so let us say, the UN, all the world’s religious leaders and all the world’s political leaders…)
. . .
Couldn’t we just once plan ahead of a known catastrophe?!!

+ lots of stock market tips.
Positioning for When Water Runs Out: Part II -- Seeking Alpha

Theoretically the salt mineral value of the discharge brine is up to A$250 million per year.

The hyper-saline brine returned to the sea contains valuable salts including:

*
NaCl (sodium chloride)
*
MgSO4.7H2O (Epsom salt)
*
KCl (potassium chloride) and MgCl2 (magnesium chloride)
*
Br (bromine) and Li (lithium) salts.

Value-added products from waste brine

Salts extracted from seawater are widely used across many industries, including the minerals and chemical processing industries.

. . .
Potentially salt may be extracted from the hyper-saline brine left after desalination. This could significantly reduce the area of land required for salt evaporation pans.

Hyper-saline waters can be converted into higher value products such as:

*
caustic soda – for the alumina industry
*
sodium cyanide – for the gold industry
*
sodium hypochlorite – bleach
*
polyvinyl chloride – PVC
*
titanium tetrachloride – for titanium pigment and titanium metal production
*
hydrochloric acid – a common minerals acid widely used by all industries.

Bitterns – the liquid remaining after the salt has been removed from the sea water – can also be converted into valuable products for use in:

*
waste water and sewage treatment
*
scrubbing sulfur dioxide and sulfur trioxide
*
making light-weight flame retardant panels and boards
*
Epsom salt production for horticulture
*
refractory bricks for industrial furnaces
*
magnesium metal production.

Bitterns also contain valuable potassium, bromine and lithium salts.

Bromines are essential feedstock for many fumigating agents, petroleum products and medicine whereas lithium is mostly used in the making of lithium batteries.

‘Australia has the potential to co-establish a brine processing industry with chemical industries around desalination plants,’ says Dr Aral, ‘which may lead to zero brine discharge back into the sea and increase the value of the salt industry.’.

http://www.csiro.au/science/ZeroBrineDischarge.html