[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by Monomer

Most people against recycling are largely uninformed,

The vote in Queensland was a terrible blow to re-cycling. The opponents said things like "Do you want to drink water from the morgue or some-one's toilet bowl?"
If they only knew how many bugs, in each sq M of soil, the water from rain passes through.
Then again the vote was from our intellectually challenged brothers in the Deep North. I remember some of the crazy arguments they made against Daylight Saving. The funniest was a woman who rang into a radio station very concerned and worried. She was upset that with daylight saving her husband would now get his Morning Erection on the bus ! (I kid you not)
Your situation in Adelaide must be dire,(as it is in my local area) seeing every other State gets to take what water they want from the Murry-Darling first. Is that why you can eat your beer?
I would still like to see cheap, passive solar desalination systems explored here. Perhaps then we could top up the MD rivers in Queenland for you?!
(Someone from the Eyre peninsular got $60,000 or so from the Fedral government a few years ago to market a solar desalinator. Have you heard anything about it?)

[Monomer]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

Then again the vote was from our intellectually challenged brothers in the Deep North. I remember some of the crazy arguments they made against Daylight Saving. The funniest was a woman who rang into a radio station very concerned and worried. She was upset that with daylight saving her husband would now get his Morning Erection on the bus ! (I kid you not)

That's the funniest thing I've read today. Cracked me up! The heat has well and truly got to them.

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

Your situation in Adelaide must be dire,(as it is in my local area) seeing every other State gets to take what water they want from the Murry-Darling first. Is that why you can eat your beer?

We're up to level 3 water restrictions, so sprinklers only 1 day a week and hoses any day before 8am and after 8pm. Mind you, I can still water my garden for six hours a day if I want. I think the restrictions will help somewhat, but it's only a band-aid solution. I read in the paper that the next step for us, if water usage hasn't decreased, will be reducing the water pressure so we can only get a drink and maybe brush our teeth. No showers. But they really need to think long-term. I'm actually concerned about our water for the future. We're bound for many more droughts, and our population just keeps increasing. One good thing they've implemented is water recycling capabilities in new homes that are being built, but I'm not sure if people are obligated to have that.

As for our beer... I don't drink, or eat it, but I know Adelaidians who opt for the Victorian varieties.

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

(Someone from the Eyre peninsular got $60,000 or so from the Fedral government a few years ago to market a solar desalinator. Have you heard anything about it?)

I haven't heard about that. I did a google search and found these:
Radio Australia - Innovations - News-In-Brief - Solar Desalination
Jennifer Marohasy: What About Water Desalination?
frameset

[gribbon]

FuturePundit: May 2006 Archives

Lazy people who can't be bothered to read links, (eh, Boersun?; ) here it is...

(Long copyrighted text deleted, ban warning given. Tormod)

[Pyrotex]

My personal belief is there is NOT going to be any magic source of fresh water for the additional Billion people expected over the next 40 years. Desalinization still requires a huge amount of power, and solar-desal may never get much beyond the laboratory prototype stage--it won't scale up.

So, what will happen? Clue: a small charred portion of a history book fell through a warp in the Space-Time continuum last year, here in Texas, from the 22nd Century. It calls the years from 2040 to 2090, the "Great Dying Time".

Have fun, kiddies!

[Buffy]

Originally Posted by Pyrotex

...a small charred portion of a history book fell through a warp in the Space-Time continuum last year, here in Texas, from the 22nd Century. It calls the years from 2040 to 2090, the "Great Dying Time".

Boy, are those wormholes useful!

I have to laugh when people say "what do you mean we're running out of room? there's all that open land!" Not to be Malthusian or anything, but is it really hard to grasp the notion that there's a certain amount of open space that it takes to support a human? Does anyone really believe that with enough technology we can populate right up to the point where there's 0.2 square meters of land for every human (The Matrix! )???

Even if we could, are you sure you'd *want* to?

Go forth and multiply,
Buffy

[ronthepon]

The environmental carrying capacity for has been streched quite a lot already in our regard, it is indeed a matter of time before our population reaches either a forced constant magnitude. Hopefully it won't crash, seeing that the diseases won't be the reason.

When the land ran out, people built skyscrapers. When the water ran out, people recycled pee.

Hey I'm too young to die! (Self conciousness... -sigh- what a pity it exists) I'd rather ask for a demographic transition .

That's the solution.

But seeing that water conservaton is a more immediate goal, where indeed shall it come from? And who's gonna do something about it?
Supposing we did get a source for water, how long is it before even that source proves to be deficient for the ever increasing human population?
And - hell - to whom am I addressing these questions to???

God, reality bites.

[TheBigDog]

All solutions are short term unless there is a radical change in population. There is more capacity on the earth than we realize, but we cannot have people living where supplies are not available. Distribution, not supply is the biggest issue.

Bill

[gribbon]

Did anyone look at the link? It claims that desalination is more than feasible, even for a country as thirsty as the U.S. (But not poor countries.) However, although it accounts for economic growth, it does not incorporate the effect of population growth. We need a projection of what the water consumption for the U.S will be in say, 20 years time, or more accurately, what the water consumption and economic flexibility will be when reserves start to run dry.

[Michaelangelica]

Yes Monomer
The Deep North,sigh, too much sun, what can you say?

We have level 4 restrictions. No use of any fresh water outside at all by any means

I think it is possible to come up with solutions to the lack of fresh water
I think solar desalination has not had enough R&D in design and especially using new polymers and nanotechnology.
I would like to see a very cheap productive system that could be used in the Underdeveloped Countries like many in Africa. This would have the added benefit of reducing disease as solar desalintors also purify the water.

So two filtering sea and brackish water. New polymers, membranes and nanotechnology may reduce energy consumption.

Of course we could get lucky and energy costs drop. I have a friend working in this area. If he succeds he will probably have to be assassinated- the system is so good.
We could discover the Holy Grails of Cold Fusion or High Tempreature Super Conductors. The future can be positive; it need not be bleak. The first step to solving a problem is identifying it.

Another interesting idea is harvesting water from the air similar to the way air-conditioners do now.

In Australia many are fitting water tanks to new houses and in fact it is mandatory in some areas for new houses. Twenty years ago it was illegal to have them!

Grey water systems save a lot of water. I am amazed how much I can recycle using a primative hose syphon just to my bath and spar.

Terra preta/bio-cahr Gardening/Farming/Horticulture could save 17% or more water in these areas.

I am not as optimistic about getting good environmental flows in southen Oz rivers (esp Murry-Darling basin) We may have to give up growing rice and cotton and find other economic crops (salbush? gopher-weed?)

About half of the water used in the United States is used for electric plant cooling.

Our local (Lake Munmorah) power station has cut its water use drastically using sea water for cooling and recycled sewrage water. Google it if interested.

Great link,fxzeu, thanks. Everyone should read it
FuturePundit: May 2006 Archives

This is a talk fest in Sydney in February

The 5th Annual Australian Water Summit will take place at the Hilton on the Park Hotel, Melbourne. This event follows extremely successful conferences, held in Melbourne for the past two years. This is a high-level event involving the key decision-makers from state and federal governments, scientists, large water users and the commercial water industry. The 2007 Summit theme is "Can you afford to miss a drop" Read more...

Day three looks vaguely interesting and ominous eg "What are scarcity values?" means lets charge the public more$ because we haven't planned for this.

11.00 CASE STUDY: Everybody needs one
Mayor Clarke’s presentation will cover the following:

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Climate change
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A stable/certain bulk water source has become a necessity
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Air-to-water units will become the next certain source
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Homes should be mandated to use their grey water better
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With these steps in place there never will be a water
supply crisis

Councillor Ron Clarke MBE, Mayor, Gold Coast City Council

11.40 The establishment of the Water Grid in South East Queensland
The Southern Regional Water Pipeline (SRWP) is a fundamental part of the Government's comprehensive plan to shore up south-east Queensland's water supplies in the face of the worst drought on record. Construction of the pipeline and related infrastructure started in October 2006 and is due to be completed in November 2008, with the cost estimated to be $600 million
Mr Graham Thomson, Chief Executive Officer, SRWP Alliance

12.20 Lunch for speakers and delegates

1.30 Pricing challenges for water

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Distortion in current pricing arrangements
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What are scarcity values?
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What is a sensible use restrictions regime?
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Pricing implications of scarcity value and recycled water

Euan Morton, Principal, Synergies Economic Consulting


2.10 Climate change effects on the scarcity of water

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An update on how climate change affects the Australian water industry
*

Theories, threats, issues and challenges
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Factoring climate change scenarios into Australia’s water reform
*

Planning for the future – what are our options?

Blair Trewin, Director Climate Centre, Bureau of Meteorology


2.50 Afternoon tea


3.10 Analysing the WWF report: "Free-flowing Rivers - economic luxury or ecological necessity?"

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According to WWF most of the world’s largest rivers are losing their connection to the sea
*

The ever increasing loss of free-flowing rivers is a disturbing trend, threatening the supply of water for drinking, sanitation, agriculture, fish and fishery products
*

WWF has called on all governments to fully recognize the importance of free-flowing rivers and their biological and economic importance
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Development of water infrastructure should follow the strategic priorities and recommendations outlined by the World Commission on Dams.
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WWF believes it is now time to take stock of the free-flowing rivers and take protective action to ensure that in twenty years time the world still has free-flowing rivers.

Averil Bones, Freshwater Policy Manager, World Wildlife Fund Australia

[gribbon]

There's hardly any water in the atmosphere. Almost all fresh water is in polar icecaps, surface water, and groundwater.