Economics and free market

[LaurieAG]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

Is there any other way Government can return money to the economy without forcing up inflation?

Hi Michaelangelica,

They're being a bit tricky with the way they calculate their inflation figures so the real inflation rise probably has a bit to do with the 10% GST that they have deliberately excluded from their figures since 2000.

Also, the only people who could exist on the pay gained from one hours work a month (our governments criteria for being 'employed') would have to employed in an enterprise similar to what bank robbers do.

It just goes to show that politicians can make two wrongs equal a right, by changing the definition of right and wrong in the middle, and keeping it quiet.

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by LaurieAG

Hi Michaelangelica,

They're being a bit tricky with the way they calculate their inflation figures so the real inflation rise probably has a bit to do with the 10% GST that they have deliberately excluded from their figures since 2000.

Also, the only people who could exist on the pay gained from one hours work a month (our governments criteria for being 'employed') would have to employed in an enterprise similar to what bank robbers do.

It just goes to show that politicians can make two wrongs equal a right, by changing the definition of right and wrong in the middle, and keeping it quiet.

REALLY!
Bloody hell!
A bit like the definition now of a"late" train in NSW. The world is full of new weasel words.
Of course they could drop the GST to 9% but now you tell me that that won't drop the inflation figures that the Reserve Bank uses.!
So the Reserve bank is in on this deception too?
How do they justify this?

Do you know if NSW is getting its full quota of GST revenue?
I heard they were 500mil a year down because they would not reduce some State taxes.

Yes underlying unemployment is bigger. Many unemployed are on disabled pensions (too old) and young un or under employment in my outer Sydney suburb is around 20%.
So 15+ YO young girls who decide to have a baby for $4,000 in NT would not be "unemployed" either?

How does our massive trade deficit affect us?
(The US has a mighty one too)

[LaurieAG]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

How do they justify this?

Hi Michaelangelica,

They justify it for the power they continue to hold (after all their interest IS the national/state interest).

They do a similar thing with surgery waiting lists in QLD. I know of two >70 year old men who have had important operations deferred after being booked, because the hospitals didn't have staff or beds available. While both of these men have not had their operations they are 'missing' from the waiting list.

Also, because the feral government never actually declares the total GST take in the budget, we may never know if any of the states receive a fair amount.

[Michaelangelica]

With President Hugo Chávez in Venezuela university education is free and student meals are 20c.
Has Oz less a resources boom than Venezuela?

What do you think of this?
My latest pet economic theory
A letter to my local member perhaps?

One ingenious way of getting rid of the Budget Excess, not fuelling inflation,doing some local Pork baraling, (to keep the back-bench happy) insulating our economy against Bush's ruination of the US economy, AND meeting all election promises is to take a page from the Coalition's book-"Future Funds".
I think the concept of "Future Funds" could be better developed into something lasting, useful and initially non-inflationary.
IE or EG
Say you give your favourite cause (Alternative energy technology, free dentistry,Smith family,hospitals, science research,the ABC drama dept.) a 'stake' of $1 million to 1/2 to 1 billion $. You told them (whoever you gave it too-ABC Board etc.,) that they could only spend, in any one year, 50% of the investment income, the rest has to go back to the principle. Eventually the "Future Funds" would become self supporting (apart from the occasional accountant's flight to S.America).
If you wished you could allow 105% tax break for donations to the principle of Future Funds to encourage business and corporate donations(It is also a good advertisement.)
This is a way of getting rid of excess tax revenues, meeting election promises and future-proofing us against the end of the mining boom.
It would be nice to have a FF for 'Australian Venture Capital'
or
even a $100,000 for my falling-down, brilliant, poverty stricken, running on the smell-of -an--oily-rag, kid centred, local Conservatorium of Music. It would help the new labor local member's chances of being re-elected too .
What price a $1,500 student's violin? Internet access -yes, music access-?

[Mike C]

To All

I, personally, do not believe in the 'free market' economy because it has created the
'runaway' capitalists.

Runaway from the US workers to the Chinese, runaway from US taxes to the Caribbean banks and corporate addresses, runaway from government regulations regarding pollution controls and other controls and some others reasons.
So now the corporate incomes are running away from the equality of wealth distribution that the workers produce. With these inflated incomes now, the billionaires are exploding by the hundreds.
If this trend continues by the 'new world order', there will be runaway bankruptcies since the Chinese workers cannot buy the US automobiles, houses and other such tangible goods that the US workers produced.

So my runaway from this type of economy is for 'My Brand of Socialism' that guarantees security by creating a 'NO UNemployment economy with guaranteed jobs, healthcare and pensions for all workers.

Mike C

[Zythryn]

Originally Posted by Mike C

I, personally, do not believe in the 'free market' economy because it has created the
'runaway' capitalists.

And just where have you seen a free market?
Certainly not in Detroit, or elsewhere in the US.
Government interferes in the attempted free market. Subsidies, tax breaks (from the local level all the way up to the federal), trade restrictions, etc all work to give businesses advantages/penalties they would not face under a true free market.

Detroit auto companies are a great example of this. They have relied upon government protection to avoid making improvements in their product. As such, other car companies are now narrowing their dominant lead. Marketing can only take them so far Instead of being the world leading innovators they are now scrambling to keep up.

In a true free market, this would not have happened. Likewise, many of the things you argue against would also not happen to the extent they are now.

[charles brough]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

mmm

I was quite amazed when talking to an advertising/marketing friend of mine. I asked how he promoted the products presented to him
"O no that's not how it works" he said
"We find out what may be needed/wanted/desired/fantasised by the consumer, design it, produce it and then market it"!

Interesting! It makes no sense to make a product without knowing if you can get people to buy it. You figure out something the public might use if they could be convinced it was useful or appealing. Then, you produce a run of it and then market it. If it is a success, you can then go into big production.

Is that "demand" or "supply" side? I think that is what generally happens, but it does support the argument that (1) business is just supplying the perceived need and (2) that it is creating need!

My theory is that a society can function well for centuries with little or no new products or, at the other extreme, it can be driven by an unending escalation of needs and products to supply them. What happens is that there is a change in the nature of their ideology. That is, there is a big difference in the world-view and way of thinking that causes these separate economic-type systems.

In Western society, it started in Dark Age communes with little innovation from century to century. Later on, idealism grew with the increasing hold of Christian beliefs. Then, you had the people all over going to town to volunteer labor on building the great cathederals. All that idealism is gone now and the secular system "pursuit of happeness" has been shaped by the business class via advertising and public relations expertise into the ideal of the perfect consuming minion. We now jam our homes with the stuff until we have to rent storage rooms and hold garage sales just to have room. We throw a lot of good things away. We repair or recycle very little.

And all this waste is draining the world's resources and altering the word's climate as the world population continues to swell.

What we need is a new world-view and way of thinking that will return us to non-sensual, non-materialistic ideals and get us started again in the early phase of the civilization cycle so we can get control of things and get birth contol working and begin to level out population, repair the infrastructure, and begin thinking and working again to build for the common future.

Such a world-view needs to be non-"spirit" based!

[Mike C]

Originally Posted by Zythryn

And just where have you seen a free market?
Certainly not in Detroit, or elsewhere in the US.
Government interferes in the attempted free market. Subsidies, tax breaks (from the local level all the way up to the federal), trade restrictions, etc all work to give businesses advantages/penalties they would not face under a true free market.

The rising gasoline prices here in the US is an example of a free market.

The growth of Walmart where the entire family are billionaires is an example of a free market.

The advertising you see everywhere in our country is an example of a free market. You see this plastered all over the baseball parks, TV screens, telephone marketers (invasion of privacy?), street bulletin boards, Internet solicitations and etc.

And above all, their corruption of our government officials to serve them rather than the people they are supposed to represent.
This corruption has led to the creation of the 'new world order'. With this type of power now, they can sue any Democratic government that would prevent them from marketing their product within these jurisdictions. This is now a world wide free market.

So what happened with this new found power? 9/11, thats what!
So now we are involved in a war that does not have anything to do with the defense of our Democracy but instead, the defense of their 'nwo'?
The World Trade Center was the headquarters of this 'nwo'.
Since this involved many US workers that perished in this attack, we now have to defend this corporate dinosaur organization.
Of course, these Islamic matyrs did attack the US military headquarters too. So we had to respond.

Detroit auto companies are a great example of this. They have relied upon government protection to avoid making improvements in their product. As such, other car companies are now narrowing their dominant lead. Marketing can only take them so far Instead of being the world leading innovators they are now scrambling to keep up.

The problem here is the failure of the management to correct the problems of our autos to promote dependable products.

I was checking the Consumer Reports on the quality of the US cars to that of the Japanese competitors. Any problems they had with their cars were corrected within a year or two.
The US cars were not corrected for an extended period of up to six years.
This obviously is a lack of management to produce a car that the consumers could rely on.
So the market share of the US cars started to shrink. This took about close to a decade before the US management did something to improve the reliability of the US product.

In a true free market, this would not have happened. Likewise, many of the things you argue against would also not happen to the extent they are now.

My above answer to the free market economy is answered above. That is plain enough, IMHO.

Mike C

[Michaelangelica]

Yes it is hard to find a"Free Market" Mike C

It is even funnier when the USA talks about "Free Trade" agreements with countries like Canada, Australia and Mexico.

[charles brough]

I agree. The Free-Enterprise, free market or simply capitalism is not working well now. But look at the problems and you see a common thread. They all involve people really not concerned with or caring about the long term. They cannot and do not want to afford the cost of building for the future. We are letting our bridges fall from lack of maintence. Our indistries slip behind because of being absorbed with the bottom line for the quarterly earnings report.

Also, there is a growing lack of honor, integrity. People do not keep their word. The classes and divisions in our society are also growing to hate each other. Strife is adding more stress to our lives.

So, it is not the economic system as such but a change that is occuring in the public itself that is causing the problem. Our religious/secular ideology is failing us. It needs to be replaced.