recession in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

[Theory5]

It is happening every day, to anyone who lives in the United States of America. Our nation which was once one of the greatest superpowers in the world is slowly deteriorating.I mean, America used to BE something. People looked up to us, envied us. They longed for our Government, and our bill of rights. It used to be a world wide dream to be American. Now, Giant corporations are outsourcing all their labor and most of their other jobs to India, and third world countries where slave labor is overlooked or where there is no minimum wage. Companies manufacture shoes for pennies and sell them for a couple hundred dollars. Tech support is outsourced to cut costs in customer support even though customer satisfaction goes down. Thousands of people have been evicted and leave their animals for dead. Gas goes up to ridiculous prices, even though their is plenty of gas. Wages don't go up with inflation, leaving many people homeless, or working hard to save every penny they have. Yet every day people buy gas, buy stuff from companies that use slave labor in other countries to lower their prices. Instead of helping others people hoard what they can. People become nastier, forgetting about being nice, they drive recklessly and don't stop if they hit someone. And people continue to do this. They forget everything that they have learned and work on setting themselves up, making more money for themselves. This kind of activity goes on everyday at every opportunity. Why hasn't anyone realized this and tried to make things better for everyone? Why do people continue to let this happen? We can only fix our nations problems if everyone pitches in and helps make our nation great again.
So I ask this one question:
How will you do your part to help?

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Theory5

It is happening every day, to anyone who lives in the United States of America. Our nation which was once one of the greatest superpowers in the world is slowly deteriorating.I mean, America used to BE something. People looked up to us, envied us. They longed for our Government, and our bill of rights. It used to be a world wide dream to be American. Now, Giant corporations are outsourcing all their labor and most of their other jobs to India, and third world countries where slave labor is overlooked or where there is no minimum wage. Companies manufacture shoes for pennies and sell them for a couple hundred dollars. Tech support is outsourced to cut costs in customer support even though customer satisfaction goes down. Thousands of people have been evicted and leave their animals for dead. Gas goes up to ridiculous prices, even though their is plenty of gas. Wages don't go up with inflation, leaving many people homeless, or working hard to save every penny they have. Yet every day people buy gas, buy stuff from companies that use slave labor in other countries to lower their prices. Instead of helping others people hoard what they can. People become nastier, forgetting about being nice, they drive recklessly and don't stop if they hit someone. And people continue to do this. They forget everything that they have learned and work on setting themselves up, making more money for themselves. This kind of activity goes on everyday at every opportunity. Why hasn't anyone realized this and tried to make things better for everyone? Why do people continue to let this happen? We can only fix our nations problems if everyone pitches in and helps make our nation great again.
So I ask this one question:
How will you do your part to help?

I am doing all I can to cut back on my expenses. I'm putting in a fall garden, I don't drive except for necessities, I hang out clothes on a line instead of using a dryer. I keep my AC turned up to 80 during the day and only turn it down at night when I sleep, 6 hours only. I use fluorescent bulbs, I'm trying to figure out how to get my fish breeding/collecting business back in operation with out using gas i don't have. I've already been on the receiving end of this down turn. i can't allow any more losses to occur.

[Theory5]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

I am doing all I can to cut back on my expenses. I'm putting in a fall garden, I don't drive except for necessities, I hang out clothes on a line instead of using a dryer. I keep my AC turned up to 80 during the day and only turn it down at night when I sleep, 6 hours only. I use fluorescent bulbs, I'm trying to figure out how to get my fish breeding/collecting business back in operation with out using gas i don't have. I've already been on the receiving end of this down turn. i can't allow any more losses to occur.

Sounds like you are doing your part, and doing it well I might add.
How do you use gas for fish breeding?

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Theory5

Sounds like you are doing your part, and doing it well I might add.
How do you use gas for fish breeding?

The gas is used in the collecting part. Quite a bit of travel is involved in driving to places where I can collect certian fishes. Collecting is better short trem, breeding is long term. I do have to build a whole new infrastruture and collect new breeders. A slow process to be sure.

[nutronjon]

Originally Posted by Theory5

It is happening every day, to anyone who lives in the United States of America. Our nation which was once one of the greatest superpowers in the world is slowly deteriorating.I mean, America used to BE something. People looked up to us, envied us. They longed for our Government, and our bill of rights. It used to be a world wide dream to be American. Now, Giant corporations are outsourcing all their labor and most of their other jobs to India, and third world countries where slave labor is overlooked or where there is no minimum wage. Companies manufacture shoes for pennies and sell them for a couple hundred dollars. Tech support is outsourced to cut costs in customer support even though customer satisfaction goes down. Thousands of people have been evicted and leave their animals for dead. Gas goes up to ridiculous prices, even though their is plenty of gas. Wages don't go up with inflation, leaving many people homeless, or working hard to save every penny they have. Yet every day people buy gas, buy stuff from companies that use slave labor in other countries to lower their prices. Instead of helping others people hoard what they can. People become nastier, forgetting about being nice, they drive recklessly and don't stop if they hit someone. And people continue to do this. They forget everything that they have learned and work on setting themselves up, making more money for themselves. This kind of activity goes on everyday at every opportunity. Why hasn't anyone realized this and tried to make things better for everyone? Why do people continue to let this happen? We can only fix our nations problems if everyone pitches in and helps make our nation great again.
So I ask this one question:
How will you do your part to help?

About 20 years ago, it was against law for an employer to ask about a person's criminal record unless there was a good reason to ask, and now it is assumed we have to answer all these questions.

I was trained to worked for a foreign exchanged student program and in part of that training, a young foreign student said the US was a great place to live because we didn't marginalize people like Europe did. Meaning we didn't ask people questions about their lives, but respected their privacy. All an employer wanted to know is, if you could do the job, and all a property manager wanted to know is, if you could pay the rent that month. No one was keeping files on us and we were not judged by what was in a file with our name on it.

In the US this was strongly influenced by the teachings of Jesus and that was a very good thing, despite some of the problems Christianity has caused. It was an attitude of non government intervention in our lives, and protection of privacy, and forgiveness. Everyone had another chance to get things right. But now, like Europe, we marginalize people. What is in a file with their name on it, can prevent them from getting jobs and housing.

We have taken this further to the federal government mandating banks to check our ID, Social Security numbers, and addresses. The privacy act which makes it difficult for family to care for family, and enables the federal government to track us through every medical related transaction. Now the federal government has mandated states check our social security cards, birth certificates and if we change our names in marriage, documation of the marriage. And the federal government mandated schools to give military recruiters students names and addresses. The IQ testing of students is used to path and track students, and has given the federal a huge amount of control over the school system.

And people are either ignoring this shift of power and change in our relationship to authority, or they are defending it! That is a problem even worse than the economic one, and this comes about a generation and half after the National Defense Education Act replaced the liberal education that transmitted the culture essential to our liberty.

And I am very concerned by how nasty people have gotten, and the tolerance of being rude and down right mean and use of power to get ones way, rather than persuasion. The intolerance has built into our culture, as there is an absolute right and wrong answer to everything, even our consideration of God and human values.

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by nutronjon

About 20 years ago, it was against law for an employer to ask about a person's criminal record unless there was a good reason to ask, and now it is assumed we have to answer all these questions.

Ah, the good ole days...

I was trained to worked for a foreign exchanged student program and in part of that training, a young foreign student said the US was a great place to live because we didn't marginalize people like Europe did. Meaning we didn't ask people questions about their lives, but respected their privacy. All an employer wanted to know is, if you could do the job, and all a property manager wanted to know is, if you could pay the rent that month. No one was keeping files on us and we were not judged by what was in a file with our name on it.

In the US this was strongly influenced by the teachings of Jesus and that was a very good thing, despite some of the problems Christianity has caused. It was an attitude of non government intervention in our lives, and protection of privacy, and forgiveness. Everyone had another chance to get things right. But now, like Europe, we marginalize people. What is in a file with their name on it, can prevent them from getting jobs and housing.

We have taken this further to the federal government mandating banks to check our ID, Social Security numbers, and addresses. The privacy act which makes it difficult for family to care for family, and enables the federal government to track us through every medical related transaction. Now the federal government has mandated states check our social security cards, birth certificates and if we change our names in marriage, documation of the marriage. And the federal government mandated schools to give military recruiters students names and addresses. The IQ testing of students is used to path and track students, and has given the federal a huge amount of control over the school system.

And people are either ignoring this shift of power and change in our relationship to authority, or they are defending it! That is a problem even worse than the economic one, and this comes about a generation and half after the National Defense Education Act replaced the liberal education that transmitted the culture essential to our liberty.

I don't like it either nutron, but security measures are a necessity in this day and age. If everything was the same as 30 years ago, then it would be absolutely atrocious to see the government mandating its authority in such a way. Unfortunately, things have changed. Having to show multiple forms of identification is a security measure meant to help everyone. Even with all these measures in place, we still have rampant identity theft and illegal immigrants. Liberty is useless if it can not be secured.

And I am very concerned by how nasty people have gotten, and the tolerance of being rude and down right mean and use of power to get ones way, rather than persuasion. The intolerance has built into our culture, as there is an absolute right and wrong answer to everything, even our consideration of God and human values.

I'm very curious about where you get these thoughts from. What are you basing this on? Do you go to universities and talk with young people that are presently being educated under the "intolerance culture"? I really don't experience these things you speak of in my day to day life, so I'm curious what experiences you are having that lead to these feelings.

Back on topic...

I really think there is very little a middle-class individual such as myself can do to change a recession. The change needs to come from the top-down, not the other way around. The changes that the average individual makes will be through market forces. If I can't afford to buy something, I will not buy it. A recession is self-reinforcing as it makes people save money instead of spend it. This is part of the problem I have with the media hyping the "R-word" so early on. It becomes self-fulfilling. But that's a whole 'nother topic...

[nutronjon]

[quote]

Originally Posted by freeztar

Ah, the good ole days...

I don't like it either nutron, but security measures are a necessity in this day and age. If everything was the same as 30 years ago, then it would be absolutely atrocious to see the government mandating its authority in such a way. Unfortunately, things have changed. Having to show multiple forms of identification is a security measure meant to help everyone. Even with all these measures in place, we still have rampant identity theft and illegal immigrants. Liberty is useless if it can not be secured.

What do you think has changed? This requirement for ID and this relationship with authority, was well established in Germany, long before we thought it a good idea. In fact, I grew up being told that because we don't do this, we are a superior nation. When the school did a fire safety program, we were told to go home and write down all the safety hazzards in our homes, and report back to the school. My parents came unglued! They saw this a preparation for the state and of course I do too.

I have to be very careful what I say to my supervisor, because if I say the wrong thing, people will be investigated by authorities and could be forced into protective living situations. I learned this the hard way. I expressed a concerned and an investigation could not be stopped once that concern was expressed. We have a changed relationship with government authority, and I know the intentions are good, but the way the people are processed once the machine is started is unnerving, and I think we will greatly regret the steps we have taken when it is too late to revoke them.

I'm very curious about where you get these thoughts from. What are you basing this on? Do you go to universities and talk with young people that are presently being educated under the "intolerance culture"? I really don't experience these things you speak of in my day to day life, so I'm curious what experiences you are having that lead to these feelings.

Oh this is a simple question to answer, most of my experience comes from being on the Internet. It is not just the intolerance of any mention of God, but the lack of knowing concepts, principles and virtues, and arguments in favor of a police state, that occur on all the forums. The political forums are perhaps the worst for hostility and intolerance. And of course I have family and socialize with people of all ages.

There was a debate about what should be taught in history classes. History as no more than a series of technologically correct facts, is history without meaning. It does not transmit our culture. Now there is some good to a foucs on technology and some bad. I just like to raise awareness of that. I think if we stayed with the Conceptual Method of education, everything would be much better. That would have internalize authority, instead of making it external.

I really think there is very little a middle-class individual such as myself can do to change a recession. The change needs to come from the top-down, not the other way around. The changes that the average individual makes will be through market forces. If I can't afford to buy something, I will not buy it. A recession is self-reinforcing as it makes people save money instead of spend it. This is part of the problem I have with the media hyping the "R-word" so early on. It becomes self-fulfilling. But that's a whole 'nother topic...

I agree middle class people will not stop a recession, but we can determine how we will go through it. My community greatly increased its ability to help people following the 1970 recession. It was a nasty and ugly fight for change. I turned myself into a media freak to get public attention to the problem of homelessness, and change attitudes. I hate looking back, because the memory is painful, but I am thankful for the changes that were made. By the way, I owed my own home at the time, and didn't need assistance, but I felt it was my duty to use me education. I live near a university and could research things at the university library. I had studied public administration and public policy at the university, so I had a clue about how to go about the research.

PS my prejudice towards the technological society (military/industrial complex) we have created is so complete, I do my research of the past, by buying and reading books written in the past. Recently published books can be excellent, however, I want to avoid the darker element that can infect our consciousness, like double speak.

[nutronjon]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

The gas is used in the collecting part. Quite a bit of travel is involved in driving to places where I can collect certian fishes. Collecting is better short trem, breeding is long term. I do have to build a whole new infrastruture and collect new breeders. A slow process to be sure.

I think we have a consensus that we do not have all the oil we need under our soil, and there is a relationship between oil and recessions. But we may not have a consensus on the rest of the picture?

It was lack of oil that caused the 1970 recession, because OPEC discovered it could charge what it wanted for oil, and use this for political purpose. Reagan went about resolving this problem by slashing domestic budgets, and greatly increasing our military presince in the mid east, which moves on to the neocon's New American Century Project and the invasion of Iraq that is bleeding the tax payers dry and will continue to do so for generations.

Who remembers when national defense first meant, defending our economic interest with our military force around the world?

[nutronjon]

PS InfiniteNow, my cohort is the one that yelled "down with the establishment" and "don't trust anyone over 30". We also jokingly said "paranoia, it will destroy ya". We were lied to so much during the Vietnam war, and being paranoid of the government goes with being a citizen of the US. The whole mental state is different from thinking the government is the answer to all our problems. Government can be the cause.