Large Hadron Collider

[alexander]

we can continue, but i will do so in the physics section, because i think this is far out of the way of the engineering section (and people there would be more likely to catch errors)

[7DSUSYstrings]

Hi folks,

Limited time today and where the posting of math in this forum is concerned, I need some type (no pun intended) of guide to the html format that allows me to build an equation like Alexander has. I can do this readily at my own msn forum, but the character format here is different. Help me and I'll help you back.

Theory5,
Yes, those are stellar mass quantities. Alexander described blueshift. Blueshift means the galaxy is approaching us; the opposite of redshift.

All,
I believe this is an engineering discussion as much as physics. We are discussing the LHC from the connection to black holes and it has already developed into the question of "what if...?", thus a quest for a device.

The LHC does not have the energy neccessary to create a black hole or even a worm hole through collisions. A device could possibly created that would conform to power requirements of whatever is neccessary to move a particular mass quantity through a particular gravity field a particular distance. I've been researching this type of device for about 40 years now. I wouldn't just dump the potential experimental device onto the net, but I'll discuss the geometry of hyperbolic geodesics.

Let's cut to the chase before I proceed (also I can work on other threads and go about my busy day while we get the agreement of all about the limitations of the discussion to non-proprietary material...)... we are discussing the concepts of a time machine and how the LHC's research will affect that concept. All agree to these terms?


Dr. C.

[Theory5]

Originally Posted by 7DSUSYstrings

Hi folks,

A device could possibly created that would conform to power requirements of whatever is neccessary to move a particular mass quantity through a particular gravity field a particular distance.

we are discussing the concepts of a time machine and how the LHC's research will affect that concept. All agree to these terms?


Dr. C.

So the device you are talking about is a time machine?
Sure. That sounds very interesting.

[buddyzen]

I agree slightly, time machines can not physically possibly go backwards. Time is only a conception and not a physical existence, it is a virtual based measure of counting. but it is possible to speed up the things around you buy slowing yourself down for example if you where near a black whole everything would be sped up and your aging would go much faster just like space traveling at high speeds i am not exactly sure how it works but it would be very interesting to find out.
so basically to them making this project a form of studying time machine's it would be possible to incorporate that into their study, ...but that would be a very big side track to their main focus of discovery. Though that would be a very interesting to experiment with.

[alexander]

Originally Posted by Dr. C

The LHC does not have the energy neccessary to create a black hole

well, yes and no, as far as i can see this...

does not have enough matter to create a black hole, here is my delema, though, if you were to take the amount of matter, and use the Schwarzschild equations predicting that the mass of a black hole increases with the amount of heat energy fed into it. so if we took the total amount of mass, smashed it together, and took all the kinetic energy convert it to heat, and feed it into the black hole, would we have enough energy to increase the mass of the black hole to actually be big enough to break the limit of the smallest black hole minimum mass limit of ... now, i know that is a lot of what-ifs and things that have a very low probability of occurring even with magical physics, but, nevertheless, in the LHC thread disproving any kind of high probability of anything bad happening.

p.s. equation i was referring to was where is the quantity of heat
with that mass changes with this formula

[Theory5]

So its improbable that a black hole would gather enough mass to become more than the black hole minimum mass.

[buddyzen]

what would happen if something was in the vacume that would interfere with the particles??? or the LHC had a problem like a crack or something?? could a blackhole be created if the vacume was broken??? what would happen if a blackhole did possibly get created, what would they do and would it be contained in the vacume??????? would they have to figure out how to reverse a black whole while keeping it contianted O_O


of course this probably won't happen though considering the energy put into this project but you never know there is alot of human error in the world

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by buddyzen

what would happen if something was in the vacume that would interfere with the particles??? or the LHC had a problem like a crack or something?? could a blackhole be created if the vacume was broken??? what would happen if a blackhole did possibly get created, what would they do and would it be contained in the vacume??????? would they have to figure out how to reverse a black whole while keeping it contianted O_O


of course this probably won't happen though considering the energy put into this project but you never know there is alot of human error in the world

Any black hole so created would evaporate within NS and only show up as a shower of particles in the detector.

[alexander]

So far, according to some math i have started, any hole created by a collision of 2 beams would take 4.787 septillionth-septillionth-10 quadrillionth of a second (no si unit for 10 to the -62 power) to disintigrate

a few things to keep in mind, if you take into consideration that it hits the wall, the total collision energy is 1/2 of what was (not) used to come up with the above number, we are only talking 122kj, that's equivalent to a small bomb... nowhere enough to make a black hole.

Now, you may wonder what would happen if it hit one of the superconducting magnets, while those are powered up (immense amounts of energy 10GJ, is stored in the magnets... but thats still only equivalent to what, about 2.5 Tonns of tnt, somewhere around there (you can look up the numbers if interested)). That is something i'll have to look at, energies there are immense, but i still have to compute what the net mass gain for the in-chamber collision would be, and whether that could surpass the minimal mass needed to create a black hole...

[7DSUSYstrings]

I agree slightly, time machines can not physically possibly go backwards. Time is only a conception and not a physical existence, it is a virtual based measure of counting.

This is what my work is ultimately about.

Like most scientists I believe in something for a reason. In this case, call it a "hunch," but for any form of paranormal activity, such as a premonition, to occur, an image composed of a photon matrix had to be able to travel backwards in time. For that to happen, the future must already be there, developed around what we do in our current present that in turn was developed around what happened in our past. This means time does exist as more than an artificial means to do bookkeeping. It means absolute time exists in the form of frames. The frames must be connected by something just as the frames of a movie are connected by the clear celluloid film. A time machine must be able to vibrate at the frequency of the "celluloid" or what most who believe in it call flux.

Yes, I do have a number of concepts for creating such a device. It takes a lot of work to determine the right geometry, field structures and such. Build the wrong device and hop in, give it a whirl and it could be your last... anything.

Alexander,

Regarding the math, I'm waiting for some guide on the HTML structure as stated previously. I'd rather not do a botched up job of it and appear assinine, or as an eqinian glute. Other than that, I'm very busy for most of this month. Remember my response to "Jackson" in the intro thread about getting my house back? That will consume much of my time, but when I get a chance I'll do some serious refinement.

From what I can see you are doing rather well in running the numbers yourself. Remember also, there's still some question concerning the possibility of a naked singularity. I tend to agree with Penrose that a singularity must be contained within some mass, regardless of how rapidly it approaches zero.

A vacuum leak would very likely be detected and the collider would automatically shut down. This is one area that this thread is properly an engineering question. Nuclear reactors, as an example, are built with what are called "scram" mechanisms. These drop key control rods into place to stop the progress of neutrons in a few seconds. If the scram fails, the reactor could blow up and breach the containment building. Sudbury England had a bad containment breach like this in the early 70's. There were others as we learned that nuclear powerplants need be build with utmost care and many had not been so.

Catch you folks tomorrow or Monday...

Dr. C.