But Why Does It Have To Look So Ugly?

[alexander]

Reading the other thread here on electric cars, i remembered my peeve and things stopped making sense again.

So last year i was going to buy a new car, i looked at quite a few cars, i really wanted a nice clean car, eventually ended up settling on a Mazda 3 (2.3, stick, love it), but the reason i went with a non-hybrid and not an electric car is mainly due to my peeve with them, why the hell are they so damn ugly.

So why does the term Hybrid, or Electric turn a car into an ugly beast? What, does the term electric mean that you can drop all the sleek engineering, stop worrying about aerodynamic drag coefficients, and build a really ugly box on wheels? Ofcourse this does not apply to the fully electric lotus, X1 and Tesla Roadster, but they are all 80k+ cars, i was going to spend no more then 25.

You know, in the age of aeronautic design principals, where every .1 of a drag coefficient translates directly into efficiency, why is it so damn difficult to design ONE car that will be appealing, both visually externally, comfortable internally, and pocket-friendly, because you know what, people, when looking for a car are not only looking for the highest mpg, but also a car they can feel comfortable in, and all the damn hybrids fail horribly!

I mean, Prius, ugly, Zap cars, uber ugly, Zenn, uuugly, GEM, ugly, Reva 2, gah, pointless, why why make cars that appeal to the visual perception and make people want to buy them because they look good, they run well, they pollute a lot less?

Which got me thinking, if a hybrid gets a 50 miles per gallon, if you decrease its drag coefficient by a couple of points by designing a sleeker body and lowering the car, change to using thinner tires with an auto adjusting camber suspension, lighten up the car as much as possible by using polymer body panels where possible, make things easily replaceable, easily serviceable, use as little as you need inside for comfort, i mean some firm foam-filled bucket seats with cloth lining (basically like my maza seats, they are not super expensive, pretty light and they are damn comfy), make it plug in, coat the roof sections with the latest paint-like photovoltaics and use latest biodegradeable battery technology, how much more world-friendly would this car become, and how much one would increase that "mpg" value, and cetainly increase it's buyability?

Really is it possible to design such a car with a price tag under 25k? I think it is, let's discuss it here...

[Zythryn]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
The drag coefficient of the Prius is .26 which is much better than most cars. Personally, I like the look of it.
I do understand your point about many electric vehicles. A large part of the reason, imo, is that most people that tried to build EVs started with what was available. Golf Carts!
Few companies outside of the Detroit 3 actually had the cash (at one time) to gamble on new technology and do it from the ground up.
Tesla took the plunge and came up with a beautiful looking Roadster and their Model S is looking pretty darn nice as well.
The Volt is a bit 'blocky' for me, but it is a heck of a lot better than a golf cart
I think you could build a highly efficient vehicle under 25k. But once you mention

" make it plug in, coat the roof sections with the latest paint-like photovoltaics and use latest biodegradeable battery technology,"

I think you toss the sub 25k pricetag right out the window.
Someday, the price of that will come down, but I don't believe you could do that anytime soon.

[jab2]

Originally Posted by Zythryn

Tesla took the plunge and came up with a beautiful looking Roadster and their Model S is looking pretty darn nice as well.

Alexander, how did you miss the Tesla. Maybe you did not shop long enough.

I agree, the Tesla is an absolute beauty.

[lemit]

I just did a search for used alternative fuel vehicles in my area. I was amazed by the quality and price.

If I say much more, I'll appear to be advertising, so let's just say that the cars I found look just like the gasoline-powered cars I found in the price range, except that there weren't pickups and off-road vehicles. But there were SUV's.

I think if you look carefully you can find something you would be willing to be caught dead in, to paraphrase.

--lemit

[alexander]

Originally Posted by Z and Jab

Alexander, how did you miss the Tesla.

clearly you guys didnt read my post, quoting myself

Originally Posted by me

Ofcourse this does not apply to the fully electric lotus, X1 and Tesla Roadster, but they are all 80k+ cars

lemit, the only ones i have found (available in the US) look ugly, they are either rebuilt ford focuses, priuses or the hybrid fusion, which is ok, but i was shooting for more fully electric vehicles mostly, hybrids, yeah there are some hybrids of arguable nature out there, like the lexus hybrid that gets worse gas mileage then the same car with a v6, but i digress, for under 25k, i have not found one car that looks decent. And Prius and Focus are border line... still boxy

[Zythryn]

I did read your first post. In one breath you state EVs and hybrids are ugly, then you mention the exceptions.
It seems you have answered your own question. They DON'T have to be ugly.
If you are looking at conversions, a company out of Seatle is converting 2009 RAV4s.

[alexander]

I didnt answer my own question, i said readily available hybrids. Nobody is going to go spend 140k for a tesla roadster as a daily driver, really, how many people do you know that use a ZR1, or a fully tuned out 350z or a gtx or a viper or an exceige as a daily driver? My point touches first of all available vehicles, not order now, get it in 6 months, and secondly in 25K mark rav4 is 21.5 msrp and that company will charge more then 10k for a conversion, i'm sure (though i cant say that i have found what you are referencing here)...

[Zythryn]

Alexander, I apologize, but in your OP nowhere did I read 'readily available'. You complained that:

... the reason i went with a non-hybrid and not an electric car is mainly due to my peeve with them, why the hell are they so damn ugly.

This seemed to imply that your peeve with [all of] them was that they [all] are so damn ugly.
Now, if you would have said 'Some of them are ugly', I would have agreed with you. Although not in the case of the Prius, as I don't feel that is an ugly car. Obviously you do, which is fine. Beauty is a very subjective thing.
As for building an efficient sub-25k car. I think it can be done, depending on how efficient you want it to be.
I don't think you can go pure EV if you want comfort and street legal. Which leaves hybrid tech.
Although the Prius already is sub 25k, perhaps you could make it less, to you, ugly without negatively affecting the efficiency. Not to far a stretch I would guess since it meets most of your requirements.
Personally, if you make it lower to the ground it becomes less appealing to me. But since we are working with your definition of beauty/appeal, it is entirely subjective.
Are thinner tires generally wider? That may be an issue to overcome.

How much do polymer body panels cost to make?
I think you would need to skip the PV as well, as that would be cost prohibative. The bio battery tech may work as you would need a relatively small battery. However, anytime you use the term 'latest tech' you are generally looking at a higher cost. I would suggest using last years technology to bring the price down.

[Zythryn]

From scanning, polymer's seem to be a great solution. There are a few areas where steel is still superior, but no reason polymer's couldn't be used much more than they are. This would likely be a great way to increase efficiency. The resulting car would need to use the same panels as other models, or be of high enough sales to bring the cost down below that of standard metal panels. But from the little scanning I have done, the price can be much lower than metal panels given a high enough quantity

[alexander]

Are thinner tires generally wider?

It really depends, generally if you are changing a car out to low profile tyres, you would use a larger diameter and slightly wider rim. It generally hardens the ride, and low-pros and super low profile tyres are a lot more expensive and dont do all that well in snow. Personally, prius is really border line, at the time, there really was not a hell of a lot of incentive to go with it, there really wasnt a big reason, and the other problem is, every few years you have to change out batteries, which costs 5-7grand, and thats on top of your regular maintenance, etc. I was looking into upgrading a prius, but it would cost me around 17K to get it to a car i would like to actually have. turn it into a plug in hybrid with a biodegradable battery pack, a change of the main battery to a biodegradable battery and a carbon fiber roof with a molded in solar module built in. Those would get the car to drive me to work and back on battery power alone and get my average gas mileage to probably around 150 miles/gal, which would actually be appealing... but that would bring the price of the car up to 40k, not the money i could really spend on a car, even today... but certainly something i might be looking into in the future...