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04-09-2007
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#31 (permalink)
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Doing the Impossible
Location: Madison, OH (when not in fantasy land)
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Re: The solutions to Global Warming include. . .
What plant life is best for removing CO2 from the atmosphere? If I wanted to create a garden to offset my carbon footprint, what would be best to plant? How much would I need planted to eliminate a ton of carbon? I was thinking of starting an anti-carbon farm where guilty people could pay for offset by the ton. I was wondering what would be the most cost effective way of actually doing this.
Bill
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04-09-2007
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#32 (permalink)
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M.C. Grillmeister

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Re: The solutions to Global Warming include. . .
I've had a potential solution for global warming and a host of other problems for years now. In fact, we all have.
STOP CLEARCUTTING RAINFORESTS!!!
It's rather simple, yet at total odds with economy. In the time it took me to type this, several acres have been lost.
Even if the climate change is completely independent of humans, why should we poke the fire? Why should we clearcut archaic forests before even understanding them?
Seems simple enough to me anyway... 
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04-09-2007
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#33 (permalink)
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Phantom Cow of Justice
Location: Hartbeespoort, South Africa
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Re: The solutions to Global Warming include. . .
Exactly! But as long as there's a market for it, it'll be hard to stop deforestation. Almost like rhino poaching. Illegal, but how to stop it?
Coming back to Bill's question as to which plants to plant, I guess the quickest-growing plants would be your best bet! Something like bamboo, or even hectares of sunflowers! Best part of sunflowers, is that they grow amazingly fast, and the seeds alone yields between 6 and 10 tons per hectare - the plant matter would be a couple of times heavier. Now this is nothing compared to trees, but this mass (taken mostly from the atmosphere) is attained in less than three months. Trees take much longer. Also, sunflowers grow in the worst kinds of soils with no tending or irrigation. And they look pretty!
On the downside, you'll lose easily 20-30% of your yield to birds, depending on the number of birds you have. Remember, no poisoning! We're environmentally responsible! But the good thing about that, is that the birds will poop the nutrients right back into the soil, increasing the quality of your land for next season's crop. So, if you're doing it for cash, budget it in and simply plant 30% more. As easy as that. But the money you make from the seeds is a bonus - you're doing it to take carbon out of the air, right?
What I'd do if I were you, would be to go and look for, say, between 20-50 hectares of land lying fallow in your region. Farmers farm the crap out of the land, and let it lie fallow for a couple of seasons, not thinking that sunflowers can grow perfectly well there, in the worst kinds of soils. So, go speak to the farmer, and rent the land from him. Get a guy with a tractor and a planter, and plant away! You do not need to tend it any further than that. Although you'll have to find out when the right times for planting sunflowers are in your valley. I can't help you with that. But in SA terms, on 50 hectares, with sunflowers, let's be conservative and estimate at 5 tons/hectare yield. That'll give you 250 tons. Selling at close to R3,000 a ton, that turns R750,000 for a three-month exercise. Rent would work out to less than R15,000 for three months for fallow land, and planting would probably set you back less than R30,000 total, including seed. You can get someone to harvest on a percentage basis, say, 10% - but then your crop is harvested and delivered to market, costing you R75,000.
The Rand trades at around R7 to the dollar, so, if your costs and prices are the same as here, that should be $430/ton, giving you a $107,000 turnover, with cost coming to $10,700 for harvest, and about $6,500 for rent and planting. Leaving you with around $90,000 for a three month exercise, when all you did was drive around, find land, and then do the whole thing from the telephone. Phone the planter, make a date, phone the harvester, make a date. And you took about 250 tons of carbon out of the atmosphere, just the weight of the seed! A sunflower plant weighs easily three times as much as the seeds alone, so that'll be around 1,000 tons for three months, and a handy profit in your pocket.
But hey - don't take my word for it!
You gotta learn how to chew tobacco first, however.
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04-10-2007
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#34 (permalink)
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Questioning
Location: central nth island NZ
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Re: The solutions to Global Warming include. . .
An algaefarm could grow ~200 ton/ha per year of biomass. They can double their mass overnight. Since they consume some 3 ton of CO2 per ton grown you are looking at Kyoto credits on 600 tons of co2 per ha. At say $50 per ton on the credit market thats $30000 per ha + around 100 ton/ha of easily made diesel and ethanol. And an equivalent amount of burnable remains.
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04-10-2007
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#35 (permalink)
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Creating

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Re: The solutions to Global Warming include. . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBigDog
What plant life is best for removing CO2 from the atmosphere? If I wanted to create a garden to offset my carbon footprint, what would be best to plant? How much would I need planted to eliminate a ton of carbon? I was thinking of starting an anti-carbon farm where guilty people could pay for offset by the ton. I was wondering what would be the most cost effective way of actually doing this.
Bill
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I checked into this a few months ago regarding trees. Broadleaf trees use the most CO2 and this varied by region. Longer growing season, more net uptake. The article I read did not break it down into specie or avg per day type numbers.
This article indicates a tomato plant uses 200 mg per day, per plant under normal conditions. Increased sunlight increases avg. daily uptake. The study did not expand into the full growth cycle of the plant.
From this point on you gotta do the math.
http://www.plantphysiol.org/cgi/reprint/80/3/711.pdf
There is also the nutrient factor. The plants will be using this from the soil. You could plan for compensation ahead of time by composting, or hitting a local compost area and taking out others yard trimings.
A bit of research into what clippings add what nutrients. For example, I have ALOT of oak in my yard and their leaves tend to be acidic. That is good for most fruits. Grasses tend to produce alot of nitrogen (if I remember right) so by having groups of compost materials, (grasses for green growth, acidics for fruiting) you could potentially provide nutrients with this feature.
Tree barks are excellent compost material for strawberrys. IIRC, oak tree bark composts differently than their leaves (meaning the nutrients are more balanced).
Ok thats enough thinking for a mind that is still on its first cup of coffee...
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04-10-2007
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#36 (permalink)
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Creating
Location: Silver Spring, MD, USA
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Removing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere via photosynthesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBigDog
What plant life is best for removing CO2 from the atmosphere?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boerseun
Coming back to Bill's question as to which plants to plant, I guess the quickest-growing plants would be your best bet! Something like bamboo, or even hectares of sunflowers!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverslith
An algaefarm could grow ~200 ton/ha per year of biomass. They can double their mass overnight.
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I think Boerseun and silverslith are on the right track suggesting plants with the highest rate in dry mass increase. All dry plant and algae mass, from agar to grass to wood, is made mostly of cellulose, which, with a unit molecule of C 6H 10O 5, (or, more generally, polysaccharide, C n(H 2O) n-1) are about 44% carbon by mass, so the more plant mass produced, the more CO 2 removed from the atmosphere.
Converting CO 2 into C 6H 10O 5, though, is only the first step in an effective atmospheric change technique. The next and last step is assuring it isn’t converted back until you want it. In short, the cellulose must be put away someplace, not allowed to burn or decay into hydrocarbons that are burned, or are worse greenhouse gasses than CO 2, such as methane (CH 4). It can’t be used as a food for humans or other animals, as animals are fast and efficient CO 2 and CH 4 factories.
An additional complication is that cellulose has value, much of it as a fuel or fuel precursor for burning. As silverslith point out, interest in algae farming is largely due to it’s ability to produce a precursor that can be made into fuels such as diesel and ethanol. Used this way, it has little sustained effect upon atmospheric CO 2, the burning of its fuels releasing about as much as the algae that produce them absorb – though it’s better than the burning of long-trapped fuels, such as petroleum-based ones, which substantially increase atmospheric CO 2.
As several people have noted, growing plants on land requires care to avoid depleting the soil in a way that reduces its ability to grow plants. It would be an appalling irony if a large-scale effort to reduce global warming unexpectedly succeeded by creating a huge dust bowl, collapsing the US and world economy so that per-capita energy consumption plummeted to 19th century levels!
There seems to me to be a lot of potential to reduce atmospheric CO 2 by growing plants in the ocean, or rather, promoting the growth of the plants already established there. There’s evidence that much of the removed carbon falls to the ocean floor to stay there for a very long time, be sedimented into the ocean floor crust, or, if it falls near a subduction zone, be carried all the way down to the mantle.
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07-17-2007
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#37 (permalink)
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Percipient

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Re: The solutions to Global Warming include. . .
things i do to reduce my energy use. >>
besides changing the majority of bulbs to compact fluorescents, I don't put bulbs in all sockets of multi-socket fixtures. then, i don't turn on any lights unless absolutely necessary. i never use the bathroom light, the hall light, the porch light, my room light (took the bulbs all out of that  ).
after i make coffee, i pour it in a carafe & shut off the pot; did you know the heating element is 800watts in there!!!??? i use manual appliances in the kitchen such as can-opener, knife (electric knife!!! good grief!  ), cookie press, etcetera.)
more to come... 
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 semantics is not always just pedantic quibbling. ~ douglas r. hofstadter
Last edited by Turtle; 07-17-2007 at 04:35 PM..
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07-17-2007
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#38 (permalink)
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Creating

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Re: The solutions to Global Warming include. . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle
... I don't put bulbs in all sockets of multi-socket fixtures...
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Awesome idea! Very simple, yet so easy to do.
Not only saving on electricity, but saving on the bulb itself 
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07-17-2007
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#39 (permalink)
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Creating

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Location: North of Sydney Australia
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Re: The solutions to Global Warming include. . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle
things i do to reduce my energy use. >>
besides changing the majority of bulbs to compact fluorescents, turtle:
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I have done this but am disappointed with the Chinese made LEDs which do not last long.
I would like an invention that tells me when I have left lights on unintentionally- especially my 150W outside light which I sometimes leave on for days!
And why are our cities still lit up like Christmas Trees?
Do execs. these days really work THAT long a day ?
How many lights does the cleaner need?
As for plants and trees, the research seems to support Tropical forests only as the ones that cut down most on CO2. (pardon the unintentional pun).
Of course these are those we are cutting down the quickest- as in Indonesia.
Some research is being done on temperate forests and trees and CO2 at the Uni of Western Sydney and other places, but I have not seen results yet.
Apart from algae you would think there would be a super-absorbent/adsorbent CO2 organism (animal vegetable or mineral) out there somewhere??!!
Surely someone on hypography would know??
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"Unemployment is capitalism's way of getting you to plant a garden."
~Orson Scott Card 
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07-17-2007
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#40 (permalink)
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Percipient

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Re: The solutions to Global Warming include. . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelangelica
I have done this but am disappointed with the Chinese made LEDs which do not last long.
I would like an invention that tells me when I have left lights on unintentionally- especially my 150W outside light which I sometimes leave on for days!
And why are our cities still lit up like Christmas Trees?
Do execs. these days really work THAT long a day ?
How many lights does the cleaner need?
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Did you mean LED, or compact fluorescent on the 'made in China'? LED lights are more efficient than compact fluorescent by around a factor of 10, and compact fluorescent more efficient that incandescent by a factor of 5. I haven't tried the LED; don't know where this company gets theirs, but they are expensive. LED Light Bulbs I hear LED's are also extremely long-lived.
Also available widely, compact fluorescents to replace your 150 watt outdoor flood (or spot) that use around 23 watts. If the flood is for security, consider changing to a motion activated sensor fixture.
Reading between the lines, I gather my going 'round in the dark is more of a sacrifice than anyone cares to make; oui, no?  i carry always a small pocket penlight(nickel metal hydride rechargeables), and use it when there is a need for a light.
More that I do: i don't wash clothes just because i wore them once, and when i do wash i use cold water. i don't shower jus because another day has passed, and when i do shower i wet down, turn off the water, soap up & scrub, and then turn the water on & rinse.
waste not, want not...that's a wrap. 
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 semantics is not always just pedantic quibbling. ~ douglas r. hofstadter
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