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Old 03-02-2008   #31 (permalink)
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Re: Is Carbon Emissions Trading a good or bad idea?

The problem with offsets is it reduces the overall benefit. If one company reduces C by 50 tons a day, and sells this credit to someone else, there is no net reduction. The 50 tons saved is sold to someone so they can put the 50 tons back into the air. For example, if Al Gore wants to heat and light the new addition to his already huge house, he may need you and all your neighbors to live in one room so you can save enough C. He will buy that offset and put it back in the air heating and lighting his addition. The better solution is AL doesn't touch the C savings of the neighbors but adds his own share to the pot. That's the catch. Only some are suppose to sacrifice to make it possible for others to go about their normal business.

Where offsets could come in useful are for businesses which would be hit hard by massive conversions to meet strict emission standards. In other words, if the conversion is too massive all at once, to meet the standards, the company could fold and many people could lose jobs. In that case, a slower conversion path to maintain viability of the company may require they buy offsets until the prolonged conversion is complete.

Say the EPA decided everyone has to heat all their hot water with solar. One is no longer allowed to use gas, electricity, etc., for water heating. There are many people who could not afford the conversion in the short term. Offsets would allow them to continue using their old hot water heaters, until they could save enough for the conversion. Those who can afford the conversion, right away, can use the offsets to make money off the poor. This scam would be like high credit card interest with the poor ultimately buying the solar kit for the rich. The poor may never be able to get ahead to get the solar, but may have to pay for offsets forever, or until the solar power unit of the rich is paid off.
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Old 08-24-2008   #32 (permalink)
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Re: Is Carbon Emissions Trading a good or bad idea?

This is becomming a big issue in Australia at the moment as the government plants to introduce a carbon trading scheme.
Most are having trouble getting their heads around it.
The government is being attacked from all sides.
There are dire warnings that business will just pack up and move off-shore due to incresed costs of trading in Australia.
GW denialists are comming out of the woodwork
But our cousins across "The Ditch" have never been slow to seize an oportunity.
Quote:
Business Could Make Billions From Emissions Trades
Monday, 18 August 2008, 4:48 pm
Press Release: New Zealand Business Council for Sustainable Dev

Business Could Make Billions From New Emissions Trading-Related Investments

A new report released this morning says New Zealand businesses have an opportunity to make billions from new technology investments stimulated by the proposed emissions trading scheme.

The opportunities range from starting major new industries, exporting biomass (like woodchips) to fuel major new power plants in Europe, to storing carbon in soil – along with major renewables energy developments, and smaller scale activities which will let farmers create income from power generated from cow manure methane.
SEARCH NZ JOBS
Search Businesses FindA
Go to Grand Prix and Paris
BUY RENT INVEST today!

The report was released at a business breakfast in Auckland this morning.

It was produced by Sam Tobin of NRS Consulting for the Tindall Foundation in May 2008, in support of Stephen Tindall's chairing of the Climate Change Leadership Forum, which is advising Ministers on emissions trading issues.

The report, to be released at the New Zealand Business Council for Sustainable Development's Clean Billions CEO Breakfast, preceding a Clean Billions investment symposium later this morning, warns that businesses competing with New Zealand can be expected to go beyond "carbon neutral" to become "carbon negative".
Scoop: Business Could Make Billions From Emissions Trades


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"Unemployment is capitalism's way of getting you to plant a garden."
~Orson Scott Card

Last edited by Michaelangelica; 08-24-2008 at 12:24 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 11-13-2008   #33 (permalink)
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Re: Is Carbon Emissions Trading a good or bad idea?

Brotherhood of St Laurence, Melbourne Australia media release 14/11/08

Carbon emissions trading scheme must be fair to work, says Garnaut




Measures to counter global warming must be fair across society, including for the most vulnerable, to work properly, according to Professor Ross Garnaut as he delivered a lecture in Melbourne last night hosted by national welfare agency the Brotherhood of St Laurence.


Professor Garnaut, who headed the recently completed Garnaut Climate Change Review, said: “We are not going to be able to maintain the steady mitigation policies over long periods of time that are necessary to get our emissions down, unless our community thinks that the policies are fair.



“For that reason, getting the income distribution effects of the emissions trading scheme right is an essential part of getting the scheme itself right,” said Professor Garnaut, speaking at the Brotherhood’s annual Sambell Oration.



“Looking after low-income Australians is not part of the design of the scheme itself, but the success of income distribution policies will determine whether the intrinsic operations of the emissions trading scheme will work.”

He said that the most vulnerable would be the most affected by climate change itself. However, putting a price on carbon also risked damaging the welfare of low-income Australians, immediately and through the structural pressures that it put on the economy.



“An effective emissions trading scheme will affect differentially various sectors of the economy and various geographic regions. It is possible that it could hurt some industries in ways that did substantial damage to some communities. We need to recognise these possibilities, and have policies to manage their consequences,” he said.


Professor Garnaut also raised the issue of the world financial crisis. He said this did not make the problem of global warming less important or less urgent, and that government measures to boost the economy should include investment in low-emissions technologies.

“Most Governments are shifting to expansive fiscal policies. Focusing part of the expansion out of recessionary conditions on investment in research, development and commercialisation of low-emissions technologies makes good economic sense, and is likely to be politically attractive.



“Nevertheless, the preoccupation with the financial crisis and its aftermath may distract the Australian and international polities from the urgent task of mitigation. That would be a costly mistake. The consequences of unmitigated climate change would still be here tomorrow. The chances of avoiding high risks of dangerous climate change may not,” he said.


The Sambell Oration is named after a former director, Archbishop Geoffrey Sambell (1914-1980), and reflects his vision for social justice. Sustainability Victoria was the sponsor of this year’s Sambell Oration. Download the speech from:
http://www.bsl.org.au/pdfs/Sambell_O...08_Garnaut.pdf


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"Unemployment is capitalism's way of getting you to plant a garden."
~Orson Scott Card
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Old 12-21-2008   #34 (permalink)
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Smile Re: Is Carbon Emissions Trading a good or bad idea?

Obarma might like to watch and learn as the argy baqrgy starts with Australia's attempts to bring in carbon trading
Quote:
Greens protest over Australian carbon targets
Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:59am GMT

By James Grubel

CANBERRA, Dec 16 (Reuters) - Environmentalists staged protests in Australia's major cities on Tuesday to demand tougher greenhouse emissions targets after Prime Minister Kevin Rudd promised to curb emissions by 5-15 percent by 2020.

Rudd announced the new targets on Monday, angering green groups but winning support from business, as he unveiled details of a carbon trading scheme set to start in July 2010, just months before he is due to call national elections.

Analysts said the cautious carbon targets were designed to appease business and protect jobs in the face of the global economic slowdown, and could help Rudd's re-election hopes.
Greens protest over Australian carbon targets | Reuters

Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme - Home Page
you will fell like this if you manage any of the above link






Quote:
Reuters
Government shrugs off climate plan criticism
The Age, Australia - 20 hours ago
THE Federal Government has shrugged off criticism from its own climate change expert adviser that its emissions trading scheme is too weak and panders to ...
Government defends climate change policy Melbourne Herald Sun
Garnaut criticism shows Rudd is a 'climate change fraud' ABC Online
Ross Garnaut attacks climate compensation as funding crisis looms The Australian
Daily Telegraph - The Australian
all 269 news articles »

TVNZ
$1.4bn to soften pain of carbon trading scheme
The Australian, Australia - 14 Dec 2008
Climate Institute chief executive John Connor said the emissions trading scheme must make Australia part of a global effort to tackle climate change. ...
The battle for the emissions trading scheme hots up ABC Online
Govt rules out deep cut in emissions Sydney Morning Herald
Prime Minister's middle path on emission cuts The Age
The Australian - The Australian
all 1,452 news articles »
St Kevin breaks faith
The Australian, Australia - 18 Dec 2008
The disappointment from environmental groups on the detail of the emissions trading scheme is the first real dissension to appear over Labor's promises and ...

New Zealand Herald
Australia's war on emissions gets off to a sluggish start
Sydney Morning Herald, Australia - 18 Dec 2008
And since it is such a gentle start, will it send a meaningful message to business that the era of free carbon emitting is reaching an end? CARBON trading ...
Switch to solar undermined by Rudd climate plan The Age
Global get-out clause Business Spectator
Turnbull Joint Doorstop Interview with Robb - Emissions trading ... Australia.TO
The Canberra Times - People's Daily Online
all 55 news articles »
carbon trading australia - Google News



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~Orson Scott Card
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Old 12-21-2008   #35 (permalink)
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Re: Is Carbon Emissions Trading a good or bad idea?

A logical way of reducing C in the air is to turn it into products on the ground.

Bioplastics, biocarbon nanotube building structures, bioasphalt, the space elevator made of biocarbon nano tubes...

Thus, there needs to be a taxation system that promotes this ideal. Remember that the interstate highway system was at one time only a concept and a patchwork of pieces. The same can go for the economic engine that could be bio-carbon-products of the 21st century (the carbon age). Tax the additions and benefit the subtractions.
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Old 01-03-2009   #36 (permalink)
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Re: Is Carbon Emissions Trading a good or bad idea?

I think it is a good idea
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Old 01-03-2009   #37 (permalink)
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Re: Is Carbon Emissions Trading a good or bad idea?

I just want to know how to turn c into product on the ground.
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