My belief in Global Warming is getting shaky

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by litespeed

I came here today with my list of GW recanters and deniers, but I see no need to bother. Just ban me, and genuflect your Idol: large poster of " Forelorn Polar Bear on Small Ice Berg." I suggest you buy the same incence used by Roman Catholic Church.

I suggest you watch your tone and carry on within a scientific capacity.

Nobody here is suggesting the world is going to end and carrying flags with polar bears. Your hyperbole is unwarranted and unnecessary in a scientific discussion and analysis of facts.

Stick to the science please. If you'd like to rail against those that you might label "AGW fanatics", then perhaps this is the wrong forum for you.

[modest]

Originally Posted by litespeed

UNKNOWN ERA? What educated person believes The Roman Empire was an 'unknown era'. Further, my citations included a broad based summary specifically directed at this "unknown era" but you, apparently, failed to notice any of them. My skepticism that 500 AD included the Roman era specifically implies I DO have ideas of both, and that 500 AD does not match them. You, however, inferred I had no idea. You really need to study Vhen Diagrams.

I think you mean Venn diagram. But, yes, it is possible to limit the "Roman warm period" by assuming it is entirely included in the Roman empire even if a person had no idea when the Roman warm period occurred.

We can further limit this warm period with:


-Highly variable Northern Hemisphere temperatures reconstructed from low- and high-resolution proxy data -- Moberg et al., 2005

This is the data that's often pointed to by AGW skeptics who disagree with the "hockey stick" graph of Michael Mann. I suppose you could read about that here. Something you'll find agreeable

In any case, the "Roman warm period" doesn't seem to be a northern hemisphere event in the common era. The "Roman empire", as you say, began in 27 BC. So, unless the roman warm period was 27 years long, I don't think it happened during the Roman empire. If we extend our search to the Roman republic then this gives us another 500 years or so to work with prior to the common era.

It seems likely to me that we'll find it there. I'll see what I can find. It might take me awhile, I'm very busy this week...

~modest

[Darrell Potter]

Hate to add to your confusion, but if you look at the rural temperature data and not include the urban heat sinks (cities) the warmest recent times were 1930-40s. The planet has been cooling off from then with only a sight upward trend peaking in 98. Read "The Little Ice Age" and "The Long Hot Summer" by Fagen, then decide if you would like it warmer or cool back into the LIA.

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by Darrell Potter

Hate to add to your confusion, but if you look at the rural temperature data and not include the urban heat sinks (cities) the warmest recent times were 1930-40s.The planet has been cooling off from then with only a sight upward trend peaking in 98.

Please provide a source for this data.

Read "The Little Ice Age" and "The Long Hot Summer" by Fagen, then decide if you would like it warmer or cool back into the LIA.

Nobody in their right mind wants an ice age. This idea is often espoused by those that are AGW deniers. It's a silly proclamation though. It's like asking, do you want your steak raw or burnt. Neither is good and everyone who cooks knows that a steak is best when it is slow cooked.

[Boof-head]

I think it's interesting that "nobody wants an ice-age"; I also think it's interesting that there are a lot of people who "don't want a warm age".

I wonder want the planet wants? Should we ask it to order something more comfortable for everyone?

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by Boof-head

I think it's interesting that "nobody wants an ice-age"; I also think it's interesting that there are a lot of people who "don't want a warm age".

Why is it interesting that nobody wants an ice age?

There's nothing wrong with warm, as long as it doesn't get too warm. Unfortunately, the Earth's climate has a positive feedback effect when warming occurs.

I wonder want the planet wants? Should we ask it to order something more comfortable for everyone?

Planets do just fine at either extreme. Look at Venus and Neptune for example.
Planetary inhabitants on the other hand are a lot more fickle.

[lemit]

Nicely put, Freeztar. I don't know why the discussion of global climate change has become so childish. It is that tone that has kept me from commenting for several months.

I hope things will improve enough that eventually I'll feel like asking some possibly dumb questions.

--lemit

[Boof-head]

There's nothing wrong with warm, as long as it doesn't get too warm.

I see. Indeed, the state of "too warm" is not one that we should order up, you would say? Most other mammals would probably agree.

Look at Venus and Neptune for example.

Neptune has frozen gases on it. I think that might be a bit too cold for mammals,,,

It's interesting to think about an ice age; we don't want one, despite the planet deciding it's going to have one anyway.
Like it has repeatedly over, say tha last few mil years.::

P.S. I can't be sure that the planet is all that concerned about whether we believe we're changing its mind about the onset of its next glaciation... (maybe it's just me though)

[Eclipse Now]

Evidence?

[REASON]

Originally Posted by Boof-head

It's interesting to think about an ice age; we don't want one, despite the planet deciding it's going to have one anyway.
Like it has repeatedly over, say tha last few mil years.::

P.S. I can't be sure that the planet is all that concerned about whether we believe we're changing its mind about the onset of its next glaciation... (maybe it's just me though)

I'm continually confounded by these notions that ours, or any other planet for that matter, is capable of making decisions.

Planets don't think! They do not make decisions, and do not become concerned. They have no mind of their own.

They are simply a product of the forces of nature, as are we.

We, as human beings, are the ones capable of making decisions and becoming concerned. Considering this is the only inhabitable environment we are capable of existing in, we should be concerned about making wise decisions with regard to the way we treat this planet - Don't ya think?