My belief in Global Warming is getting shaky

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by goku

and yet i wonder how they know it could roast us

Well, Venus is an extreme example:

The enormously CO2-rich atmosphere, along with thick clouds of sulfur dioxide, generates the strongest greenhouse effect in the solar system, creating surface temperatures of over 460 °C.[20] This makes Venus's surface much hotter than Mercury's which has a minimum surface temperature of -220 °C and maximum surface temperature of 420 °C, even though Venus is nearly twice Mercury's distance from the Sun and receives only 25% of Mercury's solar irradiance. Because of the lack of any moisture on Venus, there is almost no relative humidity (no more than 1%) on the surface, creating a heat index of 450 °C to 480 °C.

Venus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Flying Binghi]

...and where is the physical evidence of this so called AGW ?

Aparently the sea ice continues to grow better then previous years - IJIS Web Site

[REASON]

Originally Posted by Flying Binghi

...and where is the physical evidence of this so called AGW ?

Are you denying that the mean temperature has been rapidly increasing over the last 40 years, or just that humans have anything to do with it?

If you agree that the mean global temperature has been increasing at an accelerated rate as the temperature readings indicate, then what do you posit is the natural explanation that doesn't involve human activities? What is your evidence supporting an alternate explanation?

There is plenty of evidence that humans are converting stored carbon into carbon dioxide gas and releasing it into the atmosphere? Why shouldn't that be a scientific consideration in trying to understand what is causing the warming trend?

[Zythryn]

Originally Posted by Flying Binghi

...and where is the physical evidence of this so called AGW ?

Are you questioning that mankind is adding more CO2 to the atmosphere than the earth can absorb? That seems very well documented.
Or, if you are looking for results of this, there are plenty.
The retreat of most glaciers on the planet is a troubling result which will, if the trend continues, cause lack of fresh water to many populations on the planet.

[Essay]

Originally Posted by Flying Binghi

...Aparently the sea ice continues to grow better then previous years - IJIS Web Site

Better? What makes you say better?

FB, Nice chart, but do you know about the difference between "ice extent" and "ice quality?"

The extent of thin "new ice" in the winter looks reassuring, but the loss of thick "old ice" (shown by the lower lines in summer) is the worrying part.
===

Binghi,
Any chance I could get you to go back and look at post # 864 (and #849, mentioned in 864)?
My belief in Global Warming is getting shaky

You had brought up some good points which I tried to "answer." Do you agree with those points of mine, or do you have more questions?

~

[Flying Binghi]

the loss of thick "old ice"

...how goes the Artic undersea volcanic research ?

The ice extent charts show me that yes, there has been a steady decrease of the annual extent of ice. Now we see an increase in the extent of new sea ice for the time of year - would that not be because of colder air ? ...maybe the sun has something to do with it ?

As an aside, I was just watching a program about Mammoth DNA research (Sky TV) The scientists had extracted some remains from the (now) frozen permafrost. They believed the animal got stuck in boggy melted permafrost about 40'000 years ago - sorta suggests to me that the climate is always changing, and yes, its been much warmer before today.

[modest]

Originally Posted by Flying Binghi

Aparently the sea ice continues to grow better then previous years - IJIS Web Site

You're somehow misreading the info presented at the IJIS website. On the page you link there is an option to download the raw satellite data which I have graphed in Excel and added a trendline,



As you can see, the area of arctic sea ice is decreasing over time according to the info presented at your link.

~modest

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Flying Binghi

...how goes the Artic undersea volcanic research ?

That would be a question for me then. It goes as slow as turtle's hum... well, as slow as turtles is good enough. It is ironic that the melting sea ice at the North Pole is what is allowing the exploration of the submarine volcanoes there. Who ya gonna call?

To be clear, my quibbles here are points of fine contention and in relation to the mechanics of the modeling, not quibbles with the actual measurements of the amount of CO2, the current rising temperatures, or the rates of increase.

I watched an automobile review show today and along with the mileage rating, they gave a "carbon footprint" number of how many tons per year of CO2 the car is expected to emit. The message is getting out to industry it seems, if for nothing else a selling point to customers. For it to work though, the customer has to care and so either they come caring or maybe leave caring. We'll see what we sea.

[goku]

Originally Posted by freeztar

Well, Venus is an extreme example

personaly i reject that example, seeing how venus is closer to the sun than the earth

[modest]

The enormously CO2-rich atmosphere, along with thick clouds of sulfur dioxide, generates the strongest greenhouse effect in the solar system, creating surface temperatures of over 460 °C. This makes Venus's surface much hotter than Mercury's which has a minimum surface temperature of -220 °C and maximum surface temperature of 420 °C, even though Venus is nearly twice Mercury's distance from the Sun and receives only 25% of Mercury's solar irradiance.

- Venus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

~modest