Bronze Age collapse...

[Boerseun]

From Wiki:
The Bronze Age collapse is the name of the period of history of the Ancient Middle East extending between the collapse of the Mycenaean kingdoms, the Hittite Empire in Anatolia and Syria and the Egyptian Empire in Syria and Palestine between 1206 and 1150 BC, down to the rise of settled Aramaean kingdoms of the mid 10th century BC, and the rise of the Neo-Assyrian Empire. In the first phase of this period, almost every city between Troy and Gaza was destroyed, and often left unoccupied thereafter (eg Troy, Hattusas, Mycenae, Ugarit etc).

It's the first time I've heard of this! Mighty interesting!

Some of the historians actually say this this was a bigger calamity in the Ancient World than the fall of the Roman Empire! Anyone know anything about this? There are plenty postulated causes, from earthquakes to drought to invasion by the mysterious sea peoples...

[eric l]

The wiki article states that "iron, whilst inferior to bronze weapons was in more plentiful supply" I'm not really an autohority on the subject, but :

• iron needs a higher temperature for melting than bronze

• iron can be wrought to a lasting cutting edge, which is hardly possible with bronze

This would make iron tools and weapons more rare but superior to bronze.

It is also remarkable tha the period is so short (about two generations). This may seem quite long if compared to the "blitzkrieg" of Alexander the Great, almost a millenium later. But Alexander had a highly organized army to start with.

[HydrogenBond]

The bronze age was connected to metallurgy with copper and zinc to make brass and bronze. Copper can be found in nature already as the metal. There are still huge clumps in upper Michigan. These two metals and their alloys can be smelted in a wood fire. To make iron required using coal for the higher melting temperature. Early iron weapons trials were not reliable steel but contained impurities, making the weapons less reliable in comparision to refined bronze. Once they learned how to add the right amount of C to burn off the O impurities to make C-steel, the rest is history, i.e., Iron Age. A good iron sword would bend the bronze sword, making it much less affective in battle.

[LaurieAG]

Originally Posted by HydrogenBond

Early iron weapons trials were not reliable steel but contained impurities, making the weapons less reliable in comparision to refined bronze.

Don't forget that, in certain early stages at least, metallic meteorites were the main source of iron because of the difficulties you describe in the processing of raw iron ore. The meteoritic material was more likely be a stronger alloy as many impurities would be burnt out as they come down.

I also worked on a lead zinc mine in the early 1980's during a drought. While driving the 65 kilometres into the nearest town I would regularly see vast areas of marble sized iron nodules on the ground, exposed because there was no grass.

[eric l]

Originally Posted by LaurieAG

Don't forget that, in certain early stages at least, metallic meteorites were the main source of iron because of the difficulties you describe in the processing of raw iron ore. The meteoritic material was more likely be a stronger alloy as many impurities would be burnt out as they come down.

I also worked on a lead zinc mine in the early 1980's during a drought. While driving the 65 kilometres into the nearest town I would regularly see vast areas of marble sized iron nodules on the ground, exposed because there was no grass.

Even if you can start from metallic iron (from meteorities or other sources) you need more than a wood fire to forge your nodules or nuggets into tools or weapons. (This of course if you do not want to throw you iron nodules at the nemy with something like a catapult.)

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by eric l

Even if you can start from metallic iron (from meteorities or other sources) you need more than a wood fire to forge your nodules or nuggets into tools or weapons. (This of course if you do not want to throw you iron nodules at the nemy with something like a catapult.)

Actually, that is not the case. A charcoal fire driven by a bellows is sufficient.> Primitive Blacksmithing

Originally Posted by Boerseun

Some of the historians actually say this this was a bigger calamity in the Ancient World than the fall of the Roman Empire! Anyone know anything about this? There are plenty postulated causes, from earthquakes to drought to invasion by the mysterious sea peoples...

Let's not forget to add meteor (space rock?) impact. I recall the recent discovery of a large impact crater in deserts of either Middle East or N. Africa; not sure if its dated or not. I'll have a bit of a look for a link.

Edit >> add link..
BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Huge impact crater found in Egypt

So this is what I was thinking of, but its millions of years old so it's out. But, it got me thinking a meteor strike in water could cause a tsunami in the Mediterranean & put the kabosh on human activity without leaving a noticeable crater. We would need to look for jumbled marine sediment deposits high or far inland of the shores. Whatcha think?

[Boerseun]

Originally Posted by Turtle

But, it got me thinking a meteor strike in water could cause a tsunami in the Mediterranean & put the kabosh on human activity without leaving a noticeable crater. We would need to look for jumbled marine sediment deposits high or far inland of the shores. Whatcha think?

Interesting possibility! I'm not sure if a similar deposition of any specific matter was found at all the digs, but it sure could be a possibility. The only problem is that it seems as if the collapse took place in about two generations. I'm not too sure how they fine-tune that specific timing, but if that's the case, then it prolly wasn't impact-driven. More likely, I guess, the advent of some New! Improved! technology that made the owners of it better killers?

[eric l]

Originally Posted by Turtle

Actually, that is not the case. A charcoal fire driven by a bellows is sufficient.> Primitive Blacksmithing

You simply prove my point ! There is a huge difference between a wood fire and a charcoal fire (even if not driven by bellows).

• Temperatures reached with a charcoal fire will be 300°C or more higher than temperatures that can be reached with a wood fire (no heat wasted in drying the wood, no gasses excaping and making a flame where you do not need the heat...)

• With a charcoal fire you can have a reducing fire, meaning that you will not oxidize the iron in the process

Maybe you do not need a special technology to have small amounts of charcoal, you can find it in the embers of a wood fire. But in order to have it in sufficient quantities to start forging on a medium to large scale, you will have to start making charcoal on purpose, which means already a new technology.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by eric l

You simply prove my point !

Oooooo....it was my first time too.

Originally Posted by eric

There is a huge difference between a wood fire and a charcoal fire (even if not driven by bellows).

Now think a minute...what is required to smelt bronze?

Another thought, is maybe the collapse was due to running out of copper? Where did they get their copper?

Originally Posted by HydrogenBond

The bronze age was connected to metallurgy with copper and zinc to make brass and bronze. Copper can be found in nature already as the metal. There are still huge clumps in upper Michigan...

Yes indeed! I've heard some anthropologists say Egyptian artifacts (especially copper ingots) have been found in the US at just such copper deposits/mines. If copper was running out in the Middle East, then only those with access elsewhere would have a supply; cultures who developed a dependence on bronze and ran out of supply with no substitute would start suffering/declining.

[Pyrotex]

I was under the impression that the Bronze Age Collapse (good name!) took place at about the same time as the devastating volcanic explosion in the Eastern Mediterranean, 1628 BC, called Thera:

"This seismic activity culminated in a series of enormous and catastrophic volcanic explosions on Thera (sometimes called Santorini), a small island some 100km to the north of Crete. The scale of these explosions is difficult to imagine, but they appear to have been many times greater that the enormous Krakatoa volcano explosion in 1883."

This quote was obtained from this site, about 2/3 of the way down. The site is a treasure trove of archeological data, including pictures of pottery and paintings of the eras leading up to and following the Bronze Age Collapse.

Krakatoa in Indonesia has been estimated at about the equivalent of around half a megaton nuclear explosion going off 200 meters below the sea surface.

If Santorini was a dozen times greater...

Here is another ancient history site. Scroll down about 1/4 of the webpage, looking for the words "Late Bronze Age".

Here is a map of what is left of the Santorini caldera.