Tobacco and cocaine in Egyptian mummies

[modest]

Do findings of tobacco and cocaine in ancient mummies in Egypt indicate pacific trade routes to America? It would seem so since these plants were only known to grow in the Americas before Columbus. Or, is there a different explanation? What do you think?

Here’s an article about the findings:
Were the Pharoahs junkies

[Boerseun]

Although it might seem a reasonable deduction, it is by far not the only possible scenario created by the evidence at hand.

Consider the following:

Horses originated in the Americas. They eventually migrated to Eurasia, making their way all the way into Africa. They died out in the New World, however, and the American Indians were quickly overrun by mounted soldiers, riding an animal that finally made it home. They have never seen horses in their lives, and could be excused for assuming that horses originated in the
Old World, where the invaders came from.

They don't seem to consider that tobacco and the coca plant could have had a similar history, growing in the Old World thousands of years ago, but then died off through either overexploitation and bad farming habits, or changing weather patterns, for instance. This is not to say that the trading scenario is impossible, I'm just saying that that particular hypothesis isn't the only one to explain what caused the tobacco and cocaine residue in those mummies.

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by modest

Do findings of tobacco and cocaine in ancient mummies in Egypt indicate pacific trade routes to America? It would seem so since these plants were only known to grow in the Americas before Columbus. Or, is there a different explanation? What do you think?

Here’s an article about the findings:
Were the Pharoahs junkies

I saw this programme and it stunned me.
It might be that nicotine can possibly be found in some African platns. (rarely)
But cocaine is a different story. It has to have come from S.America.
But HOW????
The pacific was very pacific (ie., peaceful) as far as we know for many centuries
(NZ was populated by bad cricketers and rugby players at this time)

But we are talking what 4-5,000 years with cocaine traces in mummies.??

A fascinating mystery.
What is the answer?

It is interesting that early botanists called habanero chillies "Chinesenus" as they found them in China Yet they are native to S America/central America.

((There is a suburb book on this called "The Fragrant Chillli" which everyone should buy)

[Cedars]

I had never heard of cocaine/tobacco in Egyptian mummies until reading this thread. So Google was opened....

NARRATOR:
The Bay of Jars is only one of several oddities claimed as evidence of trans-atlantic contacts. Also in Brazil, there is an inscription said to be in an ancient Mediterranean language. Meanwhile, in Mexico, there are 3,000 year old figurines with beards, a feature unknown in native Americans plus colossal statues that are said to look African, and an apparent picture of a pineapple - an American fruit - has been found in Pompeii.

But if tobacco from Mexico or coca from the Andes was carried across an ocean, it apparently need not have been the Atlantic. According to Alice Kehoe, a number of other American plants mysteriously turn up outside the "sealed" continent. But they are found on the other side of the Pacific.

PROF ALICE KEHOE - Anthropologist, Marquette University:
"The one that absolutely proves trans-pacific vaoyaging is the sweet potato. There are also discoveries of peanuts more than 2,000 years ago in western China. There is a temple is southern India that has sculptures of goddesses holding what looks like ears of maize or corn."

NARRATOR:
And if American maize might have got as far as India, why couldn't tobacco or coca have reached Egypt? They could have come across the Pacific to China or Asia and then overland to Africa. The Egyptians need not have travelled to America at all, or known where the plants had originated, but could have got them indirectly, through a network of world trade. But any ancient trade route that includes America is unacceptable in archeology.

Mystery of the Cocaine Mummies - transcript of the video

[charles brough]

The link leads to an excellent article! Great work! I am at a loss to figure out why it would be disputed. The priests and rich who were embalmed lived a life of luxury. They had addictions. That is not hard to believe! Just look are our own society. We have it just as soft as they had in Egypt, those in the upper classes late in the civilizations long rise AND FALL.

There are a host of parallels in the past civilizations. We can learn what happens to them. We can place ourselves this way and get a better idea of what lies ahead. . .

[Michaelangelica]

I saw the progamme and thought she made an excellent case

then there are plants in Africa that may contain Nicotine. Equisetum arvense for example has a small amount. It likes damp places so could have grown on the banks of the nile? God know waht use it would have in the mummification process. It was used for cleaning metal.
Wiki says

The plant contains several chemicals which can be used medicinally. It is rich in the minerals silicon (10%), potassium, and calcium, which gives it diuretic properties. It is prescribed to care for conjunctive tissues (cartilage, tendons, and bones) and also polyps, epistasis, and bleeding. The buds are eaten as a vegetable in Japan in spring time.

It was also once used to polish pewter and wood (gaining the name pewterwort) and to strengthen fingernails.

In herbalism it used to treat kidney and bladder problems, gastro-enteritis, and prostate and urinary infections. Externally it is used for chilblains and wounds.[1]

and
traces of cocaine can be found on bank notes
However the cocaine part of the programme's story/argument is stronger I think.
If there had been a plant that acted like cocaine in the Western Hemisphere humans would have found it!
Unfortunately I can't find an on-line data base that would tell me what other plants contain benzoylmethyl ecgonine the "active ingredient" (sic) of coca
Still a fascinating hypothesis
We await more discoveries.

[Michaelangelica]

I saw the BBC programme on Captain Cook last week and it made me think of this thread

Cook had a Tahitian priest accompany him on his 'first' voyage in the Pacific Ocean.
The priest gave Cook a very detailed map of the Pacific
From this map Cook was able to discover many Pacific Islands- some many thousands of miles apart!.

Also they talked about the disease he bought to the Indians of the Canadian Coast on his last voyage.
But were Pacific Island Nations immune to at least some extent????
If so does this mean there was previous "western" contact?

No mention is made of disease in the Pacific.
Yet the Spaniards killed millions in the S. Americas in 1491.


Some other links
Jade earrings open door on ancient trade (ABC Science Online)
Polynesians made first takeaway chicken (ABC Science Online)

[charles brough]

Interesting! I might add that when in Hawaii I saw what seemed to me to be a rectangular lake. The guide said the "Minihunis" made it. I asked him who they were and he said 'the little people." They have a myth that the Islands were first inhabited by a smaller people.

Clearly, no remains have been discovered of them and we have to assume it is just myth. However, the discovery of a smaller species on the Indonesian island of Flores does makes one wonder . . .

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by charles brough

Clearly, no remains have been discovered of them and we have to assume it is just myth. However, the discovery of a smaller species on the Indonesian island of Flores does makes one wonder . . .

Yes myths and legends are a peoples history. This oral history is so often ignored.
Although I did hear of an "ancient" dance performed by New Guinea natives. That, when properly investigated, turned out to be a mime of changing a tyre on a WW2 jeep!

Certainly it seems that the Pacific Islanders were great explorers and knew the islands of the Pacific well.
From what I know sickness did not decimate/annihilate the Marois of NZ as much as the Australian Aborigines (I could be wrong here; anyone know for sure?). This suggests contact with disease that might be caught across trade routes.
(Really isolated Aboriginal Nations in Tasmania became extinct.)

Does this mean the people of the Pacific had a Trade Route from one side to the other?
Is there any evidence of them using cocaine?
How come the Egyptians didn't use kava kava?
It seems hard to imagine.
What was the weather like 2,000 + years ago?
Was the pacific peaceful and easy to navigate?