We Must Never Forget: Remembering the Holocaust

[lemit]

For several weeks, I've been trying to decide how to introduce this thread. I have failed. The subject is so large and so important that it needs to be addressed constantly, by all of us, but I'm not sure how to do it.

I am an American of German descent, so I have some of the genetic responsibility and some of the genetic guilt for the Holocaust. In third-year college German, I discovered the post-war German authors and became caught up in their dilemna: how do you live with your sense of shame? How do you sleep, or eat, or breathe when you know you are part of a group that deprived many other groups of those privileges? (Yes, privileges is what you thought they were for those other groups, so that is what you must think they are for you.) And how do you make sure the world never forgets that you yourself are evil?

I must admit I found the postwar German authors appealing because they had the simplest, most direct style of writing I've ever seen, and German is a language that does not lend itself to a simple, direct style. I suppose a more modern cognizant of that simple, lean style would be Jim McKay's "They're all gone."

So what they were, and we are, trying not to forget is the actions of the World War II German government and people. There are a lot of other things people will try to throw onto this thread. Some of them will stick; some won't. Holocaust deniers can post on another thread I started: "Pseudoscience." Or they can go to the less formal blogosphere. They will be welcome there. People who don't understand why I make that limitation will be answered, briefly. I don't want the "Spacetime" syndrome here.

So, how do survivors (specially those who feel a sense of responsibility) live their lives without starting to deny that those things happened? What do we do to honor people like my German instructor, an Austrian Jewish judge who lost all his family and awoke screaming every night in an American college town in a fleabag hotel where he lived while teaching a bunch of spoiled Middle Class American kids? How do we live with ourselves? How do we atone for the devastation? How do we make sure the world doesn't forget?

And how do stop the continuing resonances of the smaller genocides, all of which are just as morally depraved?

--lemit

[lemit]

Can anybody help me remember the names of thost postwar German authors? The only names I can remember right now are Friedrich Durrenmatt, Heinrich Boll, and Wolfgang Borchert. Borchert is my favorite because he most captures the devastation, both external and internal.

A good reminder of the extent of the Nazi paranoia and depravity is the life and work of Dietrich Bonhoeffer, as Aryan a victim of the Holocaust as you could ever imagine. I'm reading his "Letters From Prison." They are tough to read.

Any help with my informal bibliography? The best list I've found so far is at Facts about Germany: Literature. I think there should be more out there.

--lemit

[lemit]

Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Kommunist.

Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.

Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten,
habe ich nicht protestiert;
ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.

Als sie die Juden holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Jude.

Als sie mich holten,
gab es keinen mehr, der protestierte.

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

Martin Niemöller - Wikiquote

That translation isn't quite right. The "ja" adds emphasis, something like "After all, . . ." or "definitely." As you read it, at least substitute, with emphasis on the name of the group, "no" for "not a." The impact is changed.

--lemit

p.s. There are other errors in the translation. I think I'll let them go for now.

[alexander]

Actually if you are interested in this, i have read an interesting book on the subject, but its told from the other side of the table.

I don't know if you have read it, but "The Lost: A Search for Six of Six Million" by Daniel Mendelsohn

[lemit]

Thank you, Alexander.

Please, please let me hear stories of the victims and survivors of victims. Is any of you out there a survivor of one of the Nazi camps? Is any of you a descendent of a victim or survivor of one of the camps? Please let your voice be heard here. Are there any stories from other atrocities? If we could make this little corner of this little forum (sorry, Tormod)a repository for people's stories of events others are trying to make the world forget, then we will have moved the world.

The line "We must never forget" from the postwar German authors means most specifically that we must never forget the victims, with the extension that we of German ancestry must never forget our responsibility.

I'm sorry to have given a wrong impression, but this is an illustration of the difficulty of framing so complex and painful a series of events.

Alexander, do you have a personal connection to the Holocaust?

Again, thank you.

--lemit

[alexander]

Since i am from Russia, no, not really, though my family did have to endure a lot to go through the war. My great grand father was a soldier, he had returned from Russo-Finish war and a few, if i recall correctly around 4 months later, around winter time of 1941 he got a ticket summoning him to the front line that by that time was getting closer and closer to Leningrad, actually if i have my history correct, Leningrad was already besieged at that time, anyways, he was ordered to walk over the ice to the front line and that he will eventually pick up a weapon and some ammo when he gets close enough. At that point my grandfather was around 14. He had to work in the factory producing ammunition, infact he didn't finish 8th grade until he was already married. And if i am not mistaken my great grandmother worked at either a clothes factory or as a chef. Do excuse my inaccuracies, as i am recalling things that i was told when i was 12. My great grandmother passed away, and since moving to the US, i have not had a chance to sit down and take the history of my family quite down, though there might be a chance that my grandfather may be coming over here for a couple of weeks, i will use that opportunity...

So they were staying in Leningrad when it was beseiged, as my great grandmother recalled she came home one night after her work and found the house in ruins. My grandfather just happened to be in the kitchen at the time, the entire house came down, and one of the walls of the kitchen fell on the other, leaving a little triangle of space where my grandfather happened to be at the time of the explosion and he was miraculously alive. They then decided to move out of Leningrad to the surrounding area, so under the cover of night they boarded a barge and fled to Kronstadt under horrible bombardment and constant fire of german artillery. I really don't recall a lot after that, all i remember of the story is that in 1944 my grandmother got a note that in the counterstrike offensive (finally successful) to break the ring around the city in the winter of 44 somewhere around the (very small) town of Senyavino her husband was killed. My grandfather spent considerable effort to find the location where he was burried, unfortunately we still don't know that for sure, though he has found a plaque where our last name was mentioned, really don't know whether that was really him (as i think there were several people with names starting with "A" that fought those front lines most of which were impossible to trace).

On my grandmother's side, she lived in a town (when i say a little town, i really mean a village-like town, with no town center or anything, which is the case for both towns i have mentioned here) near Smolensk, i know that her brothers died in the war, though the history that side of the family i know even less, if i am not mistaken, germans did occupy their town, and i don't recall that side of the story as that was told even less often, infact maybe a couple of bleeps a couple of times, and that was even more years ago, so firstly i was like 10 and that was over 12 years ago. But all through my family history through the time, hunger, cold, fear, not knowing what will happen tomorrow...

Anyhow, this is not exactly what you are looking for so i will stop here. I am only typing all of this to hopefully make you understand that Holocaust or not, there were a lot more people that suffered in that war, and no one party that was either singled out or got hurt, including Germans, deserved the kind of suffering they went through...

[LaurieAG]

Originally Posted by alexander

Anyhow, this is not exactly what you are looking for so i will stop here. I am only typing all of this to hopefully make you understand that Holocaust or not, there were a lot more people that suffered in that war, and no one party that was either singled out or got hurt, including Germans, deserved the kind of suffering they went through...

Good point Alexander, we must also remember that there were many other terrible times in human history.

My great great great grandfather was born around 1820 and emigrated to Australia (after the Irish Potato Famine) in 1865 with his young family, at the end of the American civil war. He died in 1902.

Some of my Irish relatives still carry their famine designations. When there was a large congregation of families with the same surname in the one area they would add another name to designate which part of the greater family they were from i.e. Cooper, Peeler, Drummer etc.

Thomas Jefferson said words to the effect that our constitutions are for restricting our politicians from becoming our masters instead of being our public servants. When our politicians slip their leashes terrible times happen.

[HydrogenBond]

The bigger the government, the more intrusive they become, the more they begin to mold acceptable behavior in the image of their own needs. The holocaust stemmed from the centralization of too much power with a bigoted point of view. If you look at history, wide scale atrocities all have a push from centralized power.

One has to look at this fundamental cause and not just dwell on one of the terrible effects of this common cause. When we dwell on a particular effect we are hoping centralized power learns this particular lesson. But we forget centralized power finds a way to come up with atrocities we have yet to encounter. Nobody would have predicted the holocaust before it happened. But we could have predicted something bad was about to happen due to the power centralizing.

One of the first things that happens is the censor of free speech and the intrusion of government through law and police actions. Next one has to remove those who think for themselves and can't be brain washed. This actions help neutralize opposing points of view and consolidates central power. It is doubtful the majority of Germans in the 1930's came up with the holocaust on their own. Centralized power put the idea in their head to promote its the needs of power and had the iron rod to enforce this point of view.

The founders of the American Constitution saw this reoccurring historical problem and realized the best government is the one that governs least. When government is the servant and not the master, its influence is limited, allowing checks and balances from the alternate points of view of many masters.

Let us go back into time and consider what would have happened if Hitler was not able to censor free speech and put down the opposition with law and force, so power could consolidate. The idea of the holocaust may have come up for debate. This atrocity effect never would have happened, accept on a small scale by a criminal element. With centralized power defining acceptability, it can define criminal as socially acceptable behavior leading to atrocities like the holocaust.

[lemit]

I think the postwar German authors were afraid of themselves and their military traditions. "Just following orders" wasn't only a defense at Nurnberg. It was a frightening tradition.

A predictive event was the "Hauptmann von Kopenick" incident: Wilhelm Voigt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The postwar German authors fully believed their offspring would recreate the Holocaust if not prevented. They believed someone diabolical and charismatic would come along eventually to give the orders they would be predestined to follow.

That is why, I think, we should remember the perpetrators as well as the victims. The perpetrators are the ones we need to struggle against, and need to struggle against becoming. After all, we Americans have been known to go blindly into war based on manufactured fear.

We have already forgotten.

--lemit

[alexander]

Lemit, no offense but it is often harder to decide who is the purpotrator and who is the victim, such is certainly the case in WWII. No matter how you slice the cake it is hard to single out individuals who were the purpotrators, and everyone ended up being a victim of a sort... I mean you can certainly try to figure out who they were, certainly we know the heads of the Nazi party, some of which wanted everything to be the way it went, some did not and fought back. The cult of Hitler, and his absolutely astounding information machine is rather hard to pick apart, from one end, the papers are at fault for printing the propaganda, on the other hand, they suffered greatly from not only having to print what they did, under the penalty of death, so to say, and they certainly suffered when the allies came to town, camps, hunger, torture, labor what have you (btw, dont think that Russians were the only ones who put POWs in camps where they had to work, were questiones, beaten and whatnot, all allies did it...

So who is the hunter and who is the haunted, so to say....?