Double Positives and Double Negatives

[Qfwfq]

Yeah, humour is much related to our intelligence, and intelligence is necessary for the message not to be noise.

[Turtle]

The community was shocked at the news of the terrible murder.

[Turtle]

The clerk took a bad beating.

[mynah]

Originally Posted by eric l

It seems a bit strange that you have no reactions from your South African members, since in Afrikaans the double negative is absolutely standard. (This first sentence in Afrikaans would become something like "... no reactions from none of your South African members")
In French, there is a problem : "jamais" as an exclamation means "never", but if used in a sentence, it has to be matched by "ne"
But double negative iare colloquially used in many local variants of Dutch as well, and I think in many other languages, too. I do remember hearing things like "nobody told me nothing..."

"Nobody told me nothing" would be bad Afrikaans if directly translated, though. The actual sentence would translate to something more like "Nobody did me anything tell not." (No wonder foreign languages are hard to learn...)

An interesting (and often baffling, to others) expression used as a reply in Afrikaans is "Ja-nee", which translates literally as "Yes-no", and means, more or less, "Agreed".

[lemit]

I love "Ja-nee." I wish it were English.

I'm endlessly fascinated by the hyper-language of such usages as "terrible" or "tragic" deaths. I like to apply compensations to that kind of language. If we were disgustingly honest, we all might be able to think of a death or two we would consider happy.

I have a parallel universe in which a man will sometimes leave his "lovely" wife at home and arrive at a social event with one of the several ugly ones he keeps (for good reason) at home. In that universe I subscribe to "Unpopular Science." The latest issue has some fascinating stories on genetic engineering and elective surgery.

But more about my parallel universe some other time. Right now I have a foul-tasting meal awaiting me.

--lemit

Do I need to say that I'm retired and have a lot of time on my hands?

[maddog]

One I heard often growing up in southern Indiana... (in answer to did you know something):

"I don't know nothing!"

maddog

ps: on a parallel note consider another one...

"..., same difference".

[pamela]

posted by maddog
"..., same difference".

I never could figure that one out! Not a double positive/negative but you reminded me of something that i first heard when i moved down south. It was cold out and my friend went in to get her toboggan. Odd, i thought, there isn't any snow....
upon her return, now donning a hat, she informed me that was the name of a ski cap. Apparently this is a common cap term in NC, i cannot imagine how it originated.

[mynah]

Because it rhymes with noggin? Probably not, but not impossible...

[pamela]

Because it rhymes with noggin? Probably not, but not impossible...

too funny!!!
the toboggan jarred their noggin resulting in bad loggin' from too much groggin'

[CraigD]

Originally Posted by maddog

"..., same difference".

I grew up (in southern West Virginia) with this idiom, so despite its odd wording, it’s immediately sensible to me. “Same difference”, a contraction of “that is the same difference” or “those have the same difference” means “the preceding are not identical, but are not significantly different”. It’s always used as a complete sentence, never as a phrase within a sentence, ie:

Alice: Should I used red or blue?
Bob: Same difference.

never

Red and blue are same difference.

I find it a useful idiom among people familiar with it, because it’s conveys it’s meaning with fewer syllables and distracting or unfamiliar side-concepts than longer equivalents. Attempted replacements using more standard wording, like “no difference” “not much different” don’t convey the same meaning, because “no difference” fails to convey that some difference between the referents exist, while “not much different” fails to convey that the difference is not significant.

“Whatever” can be a reasonable replacement for “same difference”, but can imply disinterest or dismissiveness not usually contained in “same difference”.

I’ve known people with whom the “same difference” idiom is practically the only one that can convey its message. Using the word “significant” negatively impresses such people as highfalutin’, while as noted above, other non-highfalutin’ phrases don’t convey the necessary meaning. However, in my old home region, even academic and technical people used the idiom in otherwise very precise conversation, though almost never in writing.

It’s not a double negative or emphatic multiple positive, but rather a juxtaposition of opposites, like “tall-short” and “fat-skinny” (a couple I’ve never heard outside of a David Bowie song, or from people impressed with the song).

Originally Posted by pamela

It was cold out and my friend went in to get her toboggan. Odd, i thought, there isn't any snow....
upon her return, now donning a hat, she informed me that was the name of a ski cap. Apparently this is a common cap term in NC, i cannot imagine how it originated.

I’m pretty sure it’s a contraction of “tobogganing hat” or something similar. It’s one of the more common ones, I think. Others that comes quickly to mind are “bomber” for “bombardier’s jacket”, the kind of leather jacket worn by WWII flight crews, “bowler” for “bowler’s hat”, a short-brimmed, typically felt hat, and “highwaters” for “high water pants”, a style of mid-length trousers.

I’ve heard “toboggan” used to refer to a hat throughout the US, not just in the South.