Simple Punctuation Question

[moo]

When using "and" or "or" at the end of a series (items, etc.), is it proper to use a comma immediately preceeding, or does it matter?

For example...

With preceeding comma:
You may use hammers, rocks, clubs, or sticks.
I found hammers, rocks, clubs, and sticks.

Without preceeding comma:
You may use hammers, rocks, clubs or sticks.
I found hammers, rocks, clubs and sticks.

I see it written both ways.

Thanks, moo

[ronthepon]

I don't think that a comma before a 'and' or a 'or' is meaningful...

[Tormod]

American English dictates a comma after each list item, before the "and" or "or". I am not so sure about British English.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by moo

When using "and" or "or" at the end of a series (items, etc.), is it proper to use a comma immediately preceeding, or does it matter?

For example...

With preceeding comma:
You may use hammers, rocks, clubs, or sticks.
I found hammers, rocks, clubs, and sticks.

Without preceeding comma:
You may use hammers, rocks, clubs or sticks.
I found hammers, rocks, clubs and sticks.

I see it written both ways.

Thanks, moo

I always have to look up the comma rules myself; however, the semicolon is in my opinion underused.

Originally Posted by grammar.edu

You may have learned that the comma before the "and" is unnecessary, which is fine if you're in control of things. However, there are situations in which, if you don't use this comma (especially when the list is complex or lengthy), these last two items in the list will try to glom together (like macaroni and cheese).

http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/commas.htm

[moo]

Thanks guys.

Turtle, that site is a gold mine!!!

moo

[pgrmdave]

From what I remember, either way is correct, but using the comma can reduce the possibility of a misunderstanding (as in Turtle's example)

[ughaibu]

I never use a comma, before "and" or "or", in a list, I only do so if there's a change of subject.
Here's a nice site about usage of punctuation: http://www.arts.uottawa.ca/writcent/...mar/punct.html

[Qfwfq]

It's a nice site and I agree with just about everything it says, but I strongly disagree with "Quotations Marks with Other Punctuation". I'm not quite convinced it is, as they claim, the "North American usage". I think it's just a recent fad and it seems obvious to me that punctuation goes inside or outside the quotes, according to whether it is part of what is quoted or of the sentence in which the quote appears, which is a simple matter to determine. Putting it inside the quote when it belongs outside is something I always find annoyingly moronic.

The "macaroni and cheese" problem can often be avoided by adopting the right order of the things listed, if it's a problem at all.

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by moo

When using "and" or "or" at the end of a series (items, etc.), is it proper to use a comma immediately preceeding, or does it matter?
Without preceeding comma:
You may use hammers, rocks, clubs or sticks.
I found hammers, rocks, clubs and sticks.

I see it written both ways.

Thanks, moo

From an OZZIE perspective (we have our own language too) the above gets my vote
In the end, all punctuation is there to help meaning. Sometimes, in some lists, you might want to use the comma after "and" to prevent ambiguity.

On the question of commas in or out of the " " I tend to agree too that they should be out.
I think this is changing. When we wrote with pens it was easy to put the comma inside the quotation marks. Now with computers this is difficult so it often goes outside. Does it really matter if the sense is getting across?

I don't use text messaging but my wife, an English teacher, takes forever to capitalise and puncuate text messages.(Sometimes some punctuation is not even enabled)
I think she is cognitivly incapable of using the current Text Message Lingo.
It is interesting that it is being taught in Victorian and NZ schools

[pgrmdave]

I'm with you Q, I refuse to put punctuation inside of a quote when it is not being quoted. I have argued with teachers over this, and refused to change it when asked. I'm a stubborn little student