Good narcotics, or bad?

[Ganoderma]

Michaelangelica: sorry for my bad explanations. my comparison with datura/brugmansia is purely that the effects on the body are very similar and they are active in much the same way. Mainly talking about various alkaloids, scopolamine and atropine. They are both active in virtually every way it seems, and are often used topically or orally. i was not referring to them being the same, just similar effects. they are totally different plants from opposites sides of the globe.

in many places in the new world and around central america/carribean the two are interchanged for much the same purpose. mostly in areas high in black slaves (from teh past) where they brought their own rituals and such with datura (and others) and got introduced to new ones of the land like brugmansia. its interesting how they figure stuff out.

i have tried to find many of Harvard's botanical notes and such, but i really don't know how...many of the good ones i want are out f print and just have no clue how to find them. i would love to find some of shultes old writings of various things, especially his orchid work...but i am unsure how to get those.

Dr. Dukes website is great! missing some stuff and lots of useful plants, but is an all around great resource! link if anyone wants to take a boo: Phytochemical and Ethnobotanical Databases

Hydrogen, i agree. one bad apple type thing. I agree, many of these things are perhaps good for the economy, but some things are really bad for freedom and safety. Frankly i don't care how good or bad this is.....tobacco being sold as legal and killing millions and pot being used with no deaths (and all its other great uses for industry) is just wrong in my books. I don't know how we as people allow this, and worse, go on...

[Ganoderma]

a quick look at salvia, not a great article, i was actually searchign this site for an exceptionally bad misleading article on salvia but thought i woudl post this -ok- article on teh possitive side.

Canada: Psychotropic Plant Has Medical Science Abuzz

Dr. Roth, whose lab at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland was the first to map its molecular makeup five years ago, says salvinorin A is a "kappa-opiate agonist" that binds to a single type of receptor in the brain.

"It's amazing that this drug targets that particular receptor," he said. "Most drugs are not so selective. LSD hits about 50 receptors."

While pure salvinorin A is unlikely to have any use as a medication, its derivatives could be useful, and about 200 have been isolated so far, Dr. Roth says. Compounds that could block the effects of Salvia may be candidates for treating depression, schizophrenia or Alzheimer's-induced dementia.

"It's a really, really hot area in medical chemistry right now," Dr. Roth said.

another interesting article. take from what you like.
for the record, salvia is a semi-tropical plant in the sage family and likes shaded areas with good water and humidity. peyote is a small extremely growing cactus that grows in dry ht arid areas. the only two similarities are they both come from mexico, and they contain hallucinogenic chemicals. i often wonder abut certain articles credibility, and when i read things like below i tend to have a hard time believe any of it.

that said i do find parts of this article ok, others complete ..."Salvia, also known as peyote..." ???

CN AB: Setting The Record Straight

Ketamine and GHB cause the brain to get "over-revved," raise body temperature to fever levels and bring about severe dehydration.

Although both of these drugs are associated with rape, Sanderson stressed that the most common drug with sexual assault is alcohol. What's more, it's usually self-induced.

....

Salvia, also known as peyote, is legal in Canada, but is currently on the Health Canada watch list. Sanderson says if smoked, the effects produced are 10 times that of LSD.

[orbsycli]

idiots.

[Ganoderma]

a couple neat videos

YouTube - psychedelic science (part one)

YouTube - psychedelic science (part two)

YouTube - Psychedelic Science...Part Three

[shadetreecountryboy]

Originally Posted by orbsycli

The only thing that's scary is that some of these people drive.

Any psychonaut should KNOW NOT to drive while in nonordinary reality. You can kill someone. Kill yourself. . . And you'd barely even realize it. While all the buildings are melting, and whispering the most divine wisdom you've ever heard . . You forget about life and swerve out of control pinning a baby and her mama to a brick McDonalds.

It takes a while for people to understand that some of these drugs are entheogenic sacraments, and should only be taken in a ritualistic, and a safe environment with a shaman, or a guide.

It's true. "Ecstacy" is MDMA cut with something else. A lot of the times caffeine, sometimes methamphetamine. I've heard of cocaine and heroin also but . . What kind of dealer would want to waste that expensive product on some cheap pill?

I personally do not trust MDMA, nor Ecstacy. I've witnessed people who take that stuff and they remind me of zombies. I don't like those kind of eyes.

A psychedelic person would NEVER harm someone else. Only on accident, with a car. (I'm sure there are minor loopholes . . always is)
Nor would somebody who just smoked a big ol' spliff of cannabis indica.

A drunk is definitely dangerous. Alcohol makes the monkey confident, loose, cool. Yeah man, I can drive. . .
Also, DRUNK people are just so stupid! Poisonous liquid to numb my nervous system?? Ahhh . . Wonderful.
And no I'm not calling everyone who drinks, dumb.
The majority of Americans down their television with alcohol because it's legal, and they have no desire for anything else out of fear. Propaganda. Poppa Chongo.

Now let's see here, as for psychedelics like Mescaline, Psilocybin, and LSD . .
The american government is terrified of these substances. They spent so much money, and decades researching these chemicals. Theye experimented with interrogation, dosing people at random.
They thought they had found the key to the universe!
(See MK-ULTRA)

Wasn't until 10 years after the CIA found out about it the Amry started testing it out. They even made an LSD missle!!

Now . . Imagine that. LSD will tear you apart @ 500 micrograms
and they were trying to spray that on people???

I'm sure some people turned into vegetables, and lived in alice in wonder land for the rest of their lives.

Anyone who wants to dive deep into the myesteries of the universe, you can use your mind, and you can turn your minds sensitivity up with psychedelics. It's true. That is why they are so special, and have been a divine sacrament ever since the first monkey saw god.

Oh yeah, and tobacco.

Americans and their feeble stimulents . .
COFFEE TOBACCO RUSH RUSH GO HOME ALCOHOL ZZZ COFFEE

Everyone has their own rituals. And everyone should respect another ones rituals, unless they are physically harming you, like a serial killer and his rituals . .

Rare.

Beware, that's all.

It doesn't matter if psychedelics are illegal, becase the seekers will always find the keys.

In a society where every one drives, and most people are dumb, psychedelics should be illegal.



These are my observations from the underground.

orbsycli:
I agree with you, alcohol is the worst, seen it myself. I know a responsible guy who could not function because of his pain and he takes his extended release morphine the way he is supposed to and everything works much better for him. It allows him to get up, get out, live without assistance, go to school part time and make A's and B's in subjects like science ,psych.,etc.,etc. Without it he would need assisted living. There is a time, there is a place,,,for everything. The key is RESPONSIBILITY!

[Michaelangelica]

“When the whites came, our ancestors consulted the Sun God. He told them to trust in the coca leaf.
Coca will feed and cure you, he said. But coca will turn the white man into brutes and idiots…”
Myth recounted by an old Peruvian Indian.
FROM
Environmental Impacts of
Coca Production and Eradication
in Colombia
Merel van der Mark
http://video.lulu.com/items/volume_6...rint/67787.pdf

[Ganoderma]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

“When the whites came, our ancestors consulted the Sun God. He told them to trust in the coca leaf.
Coca will feed and cure you, he said. But coca will turn the white man into brutes and idiots…”

lol, thats a good one

i have been searching for a lot of various things about this and that, and figured this was rather relevant, and at this time i am focusing my studies on peyote.

http://www.neurosoup.com/pdf/halpern.peyote.2005.pdf

Psychological and Cognitive Effects of Long-Term Peyote Use Among Native Americans

John H. Halpern, Andrea R. Sherwood, James I. Hudson, Deborah Yurgelun-Todd, and Harrison G. Pope Jr.

Background: Hallucinogens are widely used, both by drug abusers and by peoples of traditional cultures who ingest these substances
for religious or healing purposes. However, the long-term residual psychological and cognitive effects of hallucinogens remain poorly
understood.

Methods: We recruited three groups of Navajo Native Americans, age 18–45: 1) 61 Native American Church members who regularly
ingested peyote, a hallucinogen-containing cactus; 2) 36 individuals with past alcohol dependence, but currently sober at least 2
months; and 3) 79 individuals reporting minimal use of peyote, alcohol, or other substances. We administered a screening interview,
the Rand Mental Health Inventory (RMHI), and ten standard neuropsychological tests of memory and attentional/executive functions.

Results: Compared to Navajos with minimal substance use, the peyote group showed no significant deficits on the RMHI or any
neuropsychological measures, whereas the former alcoholic group showed significant deficits (p .05) on every scale of the RMHI and
on two neuropsychological measures. Within the peyote group, total lifetime peyote use was not significantly associated with
neuropsychological performance.

Conclusions: We found no evidence of psychological or cognitive deficits among Native Americans using peyote regularly in a
religious setting. It should be recognized, however, that these findings may not generalize to illicit hallucinogen users.

edit, ignore the home site this pdf is hosted on, its kind of retarded. but the pdf itself is a good read, done by credible people.

[enorbet2]

Aside from the fact that much of the rationale and motivation for legislation resulting in the criminalization of possession and/or use of psychoactive substances was and still is racially and social class prejudice driven making it suspect as it now exists, from every other standpoint of view - medically, educationally, socially, politically, philosophically, economically, historically, you name it, there is no rational argument for governments punishing citizens for simple possession of such a substance or it's legal sale. While on the subject of legal sale it should be immediately pointed out that a massive, quantum leap increase in organized crime in all areas occurred directly as a result of the failed experiment of "Prohibition" in the US.

Before Prohibition, there was little need nor opportunity for interstate smuggling, distribution, amateur labs, money laundering on grand scale. etc. The primary forms of organized crime prior to 1919, if we leave out the controversial "crimes" of Prostitution and Gambling for another thread, was kidnapping and simple theft. Gangs were small and localized because that was secure, efficient and above all, profitably economical. This phenomenal growth was nearly global in scope as the same tragicomedy played out virtually unchanged everywhere Prohibition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. That it has been revived "on steroids" against such historical facts is possibly the single most amazing case of either amnesia or cold, calculating greed (and as mentioned above, prejudice) in human history. It should be obvious to even a casual observer that not only has the War on Drugs been a colossal failure in succeeding in what was supposed to be it's primary goal, it has instead thrown gasoline on the fire! Are there less nationwide, even global, gangs with sufficient funds to buy advanced firearms, politicians, police, judges, etc and seduce children to join the ranks of the criminal enterprise or more? Pick any timeframe for comparison. For this reason alone the foundation of such corruption and violence, obvious easy high profits driven higher in direct proportion to risk, should be gutted by taking the profit out through decriminalization. It would be interesting to see what has happened to the criminal marijuana market in places like California where it faces near legal competition.

Perhaps the biggest benefit of all, perhaps only second to the greater availability of medicine to those who need it (criminalization creates an atmosphere of shame and fear reducing dialogue, research, and prescription of risky drugs) is that it necessitates that people be more responsible for their own actions, including the education of children. Comments like "most people are dumb" are arrogant, ignorant and bigotted in the extreme and display the very sort of self-congratulating nonsense that started this mess. It is probably impossible to chart all the negative effects that have come as "spinoffs" to the Drug War, eating away at the fabric of trust, confidence and the concept of Brother's Keeper. I am reminded of the book "Growing Up Absurd" by Paul Goodman in non-fiction and the allegory in fiction embodied by the HAL 9000 in "2001" and "2010" as to the insidious, deleterious effects of inconsistent programming.