Are there more effective drugs than Methadone at breaking Heroin addiction?

[gribbon]

I am aware that we should not explicitly discuss drugs on this forum, but it is my understanding that should one not describe/promote illegal activities, then it is acceptable. If not, just delete this thread.

Since I was toddler, I have suffered racist bullying in every shape and form. I was hated because I everyone In school it was mostly verbal, whereas outside of school I was often ganged up on and beaten severely. I can remember at the age of 4 being ganged up on by teenagers much older than myself and being severely beaten. On other occasions I was knocked unconcscious, had ribs broken, internal bleeding, or required stitches in my face. I put up with it for years and years, but then family breakdown led me to give up, and become reckless with my life.

It was because of this that I started abusing solvents, and when I got myself a job, started buying drugs. I became addicted to Heroin, Cocaine and Speed in no time, and was completely ruined by multiple drug addiction by the age of 11. For me, four months of hospital treatment was required to break multiple drug addcition. I really don't enjoy talking about my childhood, but it because of this that I feel a need to help others avoid the same.

Methadone is the most common rehab medicine, but recently buprenorphine has been shown as more effective (and less dangerous). Ibogaine is an experimental medication which I would like to know a bit more about. It is supposed to becapable of breaking dependencies on several hard drugs, but I'm interested to know if it is good enough to be used in hospitals now...

Thank-you...

[sanctus]

I don't know the other rehab medicines you talk about (and neither well methadone). There is an alternitive to these rehab drug I think as well can help: distribution of clean (I mean tested to be in normal doses) heroin by the government, there are some cities in Switzerland which do this. The advantage is takes you out of the street life and the risks going along with that life and may give you more strength to be able to stop.

[Ganoderma]

a fairly non-standardized plant. Iboga. ibogain is seing looked at, although i am really nto sure where it is at in laboratory testing. google searching will yeild good results on this one.

[CraigD]

I’ve some experience with ibogaine, through an association with the Rainbow Family’s Center for Alternative Living Medicine. (as the linked to article explains, as with practically everything Rainbow, this is an entirely unofficial, leaderless folk tradition). It has an anecdotal reputation as an “addiction interrupter” for many dissimilar addictive drugs, including heroine, nicotine (cigarettes), and alcohol.

The basis for this reputation is psychological, not pharmacological. Unlike methadone, nicotine patches, etc., which is used over a long period as a replacement to reduce craving for the original substance, ibogaine is typically used 1 time only, in combination with intense support from therapist/friends. In the high doses used for addiction interuption, ibogaine produces an intense, long lasting (24-48 hour) period of incapacitation that typically includes hallucinations and loss of balance and coordination. Proponents believe that, preceded by the longest possible period of abstinence from the original substance, the combination of this additional time, the disorientation, an the religious/quasi-religious ritual effect typically resulting from the drug and the intense human support, the patient’s personality is altered in a profound way that cures them of practically all addictive behavior. Coupled with this belief is the drug’s history of use in primitive African tribal cultures, some of which use it in “adulthood initiation” rituals, after which a person is believed to have shed childhood interests, and is granted full adult status. The reasoning goes that modern western people are “incomplete adults” for never having had a distinct, profound, culturally recognized adulthood initiation, and are thus prone to inappropriate childish behavior, which includes substance abuse, irresponsibility, etc.

Despite having received US FDA approval in 1967, in 1970 ibogaine was placed on the US CSA schedule 1, where it remains today, making its use in the US strictly and severely illegal. Some countries do not have such legal prohibitions, and allow it to be prescribed and promoted by non-government organizations.

Similar claims of effectiveness for addiction interruption were made of LSD in the 1960s, particularly by research physician and LSD advocate John Lilly.

Because it’s difficult to separate the effect of peer support and counseling from the effect of “interrupter” drugs such as ibogaine, little to no scientific evidence exists supporting or refuting these claims. Despite having discussed it extensively with proponents, I’ve never actually witnessed the described ibogaine treatment, so can’t offer even anecdotal evidence for or against its efficacy.

[ughaibu]

A friend of mine initially came of his heroin habit by staying drunk, out in the countryside, for a week, after this a program of naltrexone kept him off: MedlinePlus Drug Information: Naltrexone

[orbsycli]

CraigD thank you for posting that. Ughaibu, too. This is a powerful thread.

[sanctus]

The ting with LSD might help, a couple of weeks back I discussed with a friend who passed a couple of years on heroin dependence. She told me that every now and then (about every 3 months in average) she still has some fall-backs, but to not use heroin again she goes then on a LSD trip. She really says this helps her afterwards to resist the temoptation of heroin.

[Cedars]

There are only two drugs that I know of, which can cause death on withdrawl, alcohol and barbituates. Those two need to be medically supervised as withdrawl occurs. That said..

Of the people I know who were physically addicted to some type of drug, each one of them who went thru the anguish and pain of physical withdrawl, hold the memory of that event as a powerful tool to keep them from using that drug again. What they say, over and over is, I will never do that drug again because I never want to go thru withdrawl.

One used a similar approach as the friend of ughaibu, via a hotel room, a strong friend who wouldnt let them out, and a bottle, but did no additional suppliments. She didnt know they were getting a room to dry her out, but after it was over she was very grateful.

The one I know who went into a methadone program relapsed many times and it seemed to be more of a game, than a real attempt at being clean.

I am not sure that 'easing' the reality of withdrawl is a benefit for the addicted.

[Ganoderma]

good points. i think after you have a support system one of the more effective routes is just go at it cold turkey, and dont leave until its "over". but breaking a physical addiction seems maybe easier than breaking a mental one. perhaps that is why ibogaine and lsd are said to work so well?

[CraigD]

Originally Posted by Cedars

One used a similar approach as the friend of ughaibu, via a hotel room, a strong friend who wouldnt let them out, and a bottle, but did no additional suppliments. She didnt know they were getting a room to dry her out, but after it was over she was very grateful.

Though I’ve also witnessed at least short-term success with this approach (I’ve personally used a variation of it on 2 occasions, involving sham hiking/camping trips and “lost” drugs), I’ve also seen the approach go badly wrong, not only failing to interrupt the targeted chemical dependency, but ending in criminal complaints being made and lawsuits filed.

It’s important to understand that keeping a person somewhere against there will, even with good intentions, can technically be construed as a crime. The use of physical force to do this, or to defend against a physical attack by the patient during a“physical intervention”, can be construed as assault and battery. And, as with any action that may necessitate physical force to restrain someone, there is a risk of injury to everyone involved.

Except in cases involving injury or death, or ones where the intervention or deprogramming was done by a paid “professional”, I’m unaware of an intervention actually resulting in criminal prosecution. However, anyone considering such action should be careful to consider the possibility that the patient will not be grateful, and may even seek revenge. People with CD problems often have violent, unwise friends, so caution is called for.

Originally Posted by Cedars

The one I know who went into a methadone program relapsed many times and it seemed to be more of a game, than a real attempt at being clean.

I am not sure that 'easing' the reality of withdrawl is a benefit for the addicted.

This matches some of my experience with people in Methadone treatment programs, and accounts from a friend who’s the director of a not-for-profit agency offering multiple treatment programs, includes a needle exchange programs.

In the opinions of many experienced therapists, it may be practically impossible for some people to completely abstain from alcohol and drug use. In such cases, “replacement” drugs such as Methadone may offer benefits. Methadone is taken orally, not injected, so reduces risk of potentially serious or fatal infection. Although Methadone overdose can cause severe injury or death, as a legitimately manufactured and distributed drug, its purity and the amount of active ingredient in a dose is well-controlled, reduces the risk of accidental overdose or tainting, and can be dispensed in safe single doses. Regulate use can allow a patient to be more responsible, have a job, and avoid social interactions that get he or she into trouble.

So “maintenance” therapy, while distasteful to many people, may be a preferable alternative to no therapy, or unsuccessful attempts to completely end drug use.

A word of caution about Methadone programs: Although all use the same drug, dosage, and about the same frequency, some are very expensive, to a degree that I consider fraudulent. Though many people have insurance to pay some or all of the cost, I advise caution, especially when considering programs costing more than US$1000/month that promise to be greatly more effective than others.