MSG - "Poisoning" chain letter meme

[Michaelangelica]

Does the "glutamatergic system" have anything to do with MSG?

[HydrogenBond]

The rapid breakdown may be why when one eats Chineese food, they get full and a few hours later are hungry again. As for me, I must have the stomach of a billy goat, MSG doesn't bother me.

I wonder how much of the western negative hype about MSG is a conditioned response. The orientals believe it is good, so few people are affected in quite the same way. Tell westerners it is bad for you and all types of symptoms break out. When I was young I never met anybody who had a problem with peanut butter. Now, it is considered a toxic substance, that can amp-out the refined digestive system. Maybe both peant butter and MSG studies have created an Emporer's New Clothes affect. Statistical studies are not fully rational such that an irrational secondary affect would be expected from part of the population.

I remember the son of friend's wife (her son by a previous marriage). She said he needed to stay away from sugar because it made him all wound up and hard to control. But it was hard not to treat a good kid to coke, cake and candy, so my friend and I would treat him to such thing when the mother was not around, with no ill affects. He was looking at our controlled behavior and trying to be like one of the guys. Once his mother caught us, and the kid began to create all the sympthom expected by his mother. With this self forfilling prophesy providing her justification, she cut us both a new one. The child was no longer able to enjoy some of the fun of life because of game with his mother, because of the social fad. I realized that mind over matter is a powerful thing.

What science needs to do is create hype for something where no previous relationships occurs. This will be a controlled science experiment to see the psychologicla affects of medical hype. If the hype create more discomfort than it is intended to cure, such science studies should be considered to have toxic side affects.

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by HydrogenBond

irrational secondary affect would be expected from part of the population.

What science needs to do is create hype for something where no previous relationships occurs. This will be a controlled science experiment to see the psychologicla affects of medical hype. If the hype create more discomfort than it is intended to cure, such science studies should be considered to have toxic side affects.

Conditioned response??
Condiditioned by what?
Do you mean a psychosomatic or placebo response??

Peanut butter allergy is fairy rare considering the amount of peanut butter about.
Faulty processing can allow small amounts of afflatotoxins(a fungus that likes peanuts) to get though and these are some of the most powerful carcinogens and perhaps allergens known
Peanut allergy may not be "new" in that it has probably been around for a while before anyone noticed the cause.

I can cope with some MSG but certainly would not volunteer for a controlled experiment unless they paid me very large sums of money.
I would loose too many days out of my life.
Even if you did an experiment and found 1 out of every 100 people had a reaction to MSG that would not be statistically significant and ignored.

MSG is ubiquitous in nature and in processed food. It would be very difficult to escape it totally.

I can imagine someone having a"rage" reaction with an overdose if they did not know what was happening; as the symptoms (adrenal rush, rapid heart beat, heightened senses) are the same

PS
Chinese and many Asians also have quirky reactions to things like Alcohol.
many Chinese when they drink alcohol glow bright red.
I used to have a Chinese employee who could never sneak a beer at Lunch time as he would "glow" most of the afternoon.

Asians also have problems digesting lactose, and perhaps(?) even beef and gluten in wheat.

[Celeste]

Mich....I wouldn't jump on the psychosomatic bus just yet.....

On Friday, the 18th I had my annual cardiac workup, (Stress/Echo, EKG, Holtor Monitor,) with one of Utah's leading Cardiologist who specializes in Arrhythmia, Electrophysiology, implantable devices, and Cardiac biopsies.
(I have an arrythmia (PVC's), IST, and mild transient MVP.)

During our follow-up consult, I asked him about MSG.

What about manufactured MSG, is it really a neuroexcitor/toxin?
His reply: Absolutely.

Is all the hype about the dangers of MSG simply that, alot of hype without foundation?
His reply: Absolutely not and I wouldn't recommend large amounts of MSG to anyone, even those that don't have heart or neurological disorders.

Some food for thought:

Dr. John Olney neuroscientist and colleagues at the Department of Psychiatry and Pediatrics at Washington University School of Medicine.
Here, the researchers exposed 6 infant rhesus monkeys to a single MSG dose ranging from 1 to 4 g/kg and were compared to 3 control monkeys exposed in the same manner to sodium salt (table salt). The researchers found that all MSG exposed monkeys developed damage to the brain area known as the infundibular region of the hypothalamus.

In another study in mice:
Of the twenty-three animals given .5 g/kg doses of MSG, twelve (52%) suffered hypothalamic damage; and of sixteen animals treated at .75 g/kg, thirteen (81%) were affected. Nineteen animals (100%) treated at 1g/kg and seven (100%) treated with 2 g/kg developed lesions in the part of the hypothalamus known as the arcuate nucleus.
The results showed that only the very lowest .25 g/kg level had no harmful observable effect upon the brain cells.

The FDA refused to take action after Dr. Olney informed the FDA and it was only after his testimony before a Congressional committee that the food manufactures agreed to remove MSG from baby foods.

Sadly, nowadays, a child consuming a soup containing MSG (like Campbells Chicken Noodle) plus a drink with NutraSweet will have a blood level of excitotoxins 6 times the blood level that destroys hypothalamus neurons in baby mice.

MSG causes a very large insulin response after it is ingested since there are glutamate receptors in the pancreas. MSG opens calcium channels, thus constricting blood vessels – this may put diabetics with high blood pressure at risk by negating calcium channel blocker medication.
Department of Microbiology and Infectious Diseases, Julia McFarlane Diabetes Research Unit, University of Calgary, Alberta, Canada. Clin Invest Med

When neurons are exposed to manufactured MSG, they become very excited and fire their impulses very rapidly until they reach a state of "extreme exhaustion". Several hours later, these neurons will suddenly die as if the cells were excited to death. As a result, neuroscientists have dubbed these class of chemicals "EXCITOTOXINS."

Sufferers of MSG's effects are not experiencing an "allergy." Instead, they are experiencing the results of direct nerve stimulation and possible nerve damage.

Reported MSG reactions, which can occur as a result of consuming even small amounts (much less than the 1/2 gram the FDA considers to be low), include migraines; hives; mouth eruptions; numbness; tingling; swelling of mucous membranes in the oral, gastrointestinal or reproductive tract; asthma; runny nose; insomnia; seizures; mood swings; panic attacks; diarrhea; and cardiac irregularities.
(Remember, ALL of the MSG exposed monkeys developed damage to the brain area known as the infundibular region of the hypothalamus.)

Emergency room physician George R. Schwartz, author of "In Bad Taste: The MSG Symptom Complex," says MSG is a "neurotoxin," a substance that actually induces nerve 'changes' and possible nerve 'damage'.

[Michaelangelica]

Interesting post Celeste Thanks

You wonder why there is such a concerted effort to keep it in our food??
If a herb was accused of half the things MSG is accused of it would be banned immediately!

Perhaps some are looking for alternatives
eg
http://www.bakeryandsnacks.com/news/...m-maxarome-msg

17/08/2006 - DSM Food Specialties claims that its Maxarome Select product - a natural high 5' nucleotide yeast extract - can effectively replace monosodium glutamate (MSG) in crisps without any loss of flavour or taste.

Though you wonder if the cure might be worse!

This is from a recent article on food for kid's birthday parties which adds another variable to the mix - ie the synergistic effect of MSG with other additives!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FROM:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/foodm...851280,00.html

Monosodium glutamate (MSG or E621). Recent research suggests that, in combination with other common additives MSG has a 'synergistic' effect, meaning that the impact of the additives is increased - in Dr Vyvyan Howard's recent Liverpool University study, common food-colouring brilliant blue (E133) plus MSG had four times the slowing effect on the growth of immature nerve cells.
Glutamate manufacturers point out that glutamate is a naturally occurring amino acid, and that MSG has been used safely in food for nearly 100 years.

I wonder how you define "safely" if you manufacture food? The same way as Cigarette companies??

Read the whole article if you want to really scare yourself about food additives!
eg
Prawn Cocktail Crisp anyone?

Prawn cocktail flavour crisps

Sweeteners: sugar, dextrose, aspartame and saccharin.
There's also MSG, and more potassium chloride as well as another flavour enhancer called disodium 5'-ribonucleotide.

or a ham sandwich?

Dairylea Lunchables

('Formed ham') Sodium acetate, MSG, potassium chloride, sodium nitrite, dextrose, sodium phosphate, sulphur dioxide, glucose syrup, ammonium hydrogen carbonate, cochineal, sugar, anti-fungal potassium sorbate. A total of 27g of sugar per meal.

and lets not even start with the bread and margarine and background traces of DDT

[Michaelangelica]

Just found this.
A good, if conservative, run down on MSG
http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/news...ews41n1803.cfm

Chief Scientist Dr Marion Healy looks at the role of MSG in food

While the majority of us can eat a wide range of foods without experiencing any adverse effects, a small number of individuals experience an adverse reaction in response to eating certain foods or substances in food.

These reactions are generally classed as hypersensitive reactions and comprise two major categories - food allergies and food intolerances. Food allergies are mediated via the immune system while food intolerances are mediated through non-immune mechanisms.

Food intolerances can be caused by metabolic disorders (eg lactose intolerance), although in some cases the mechanism is not known, and the intolerance is termed an idiosyncratic reaction. One substance reported to cause idiosyncratic reactions is mono sodium glutamate (MSG).

The types of symptoms reported in response to MSG vary, but can include headache, numbness/tingling, flushing, muscle tightness, and generalised weakness. These reactions, while unpleasant, tend to be transient and do not produce any long-lasting effects. Some studies have estimated that this complex of symptoms may occur in about 1% of the population following consumption of a meal, although it is not clear what proportion of these reported reactions are directly attributable to MSG.

MSG is the sodium salt of one of the most abundant amino acids found in nature: L-glutamic acid. Glutamic acid exists both as free glutamate and in protein. Glutamate is synthesised by the body and plays an essential role in human metabolism.

Glutamate occurs naturally in virtually all foods, including meat, fish, poultry, breast milk and vegetables. In general, protein-rich foods - such as breast milk, and meat - contain large amounts of bound glutamate, whereas vegetables and fruits (especially peas, tomatoes, and potatoes) and mushrooms tend to contain high levels of free glutamate. Some processed foods, such as fermented and hydrolysed protein products (eg. soy sauce, vegemite), can also contain large amounts of free glutamate.

It is the free glutamate in foods, such as cheese and tomato, which contributes to their flavour enhancing effects when used in cooking.

In addition, MSG is often added deliberately to food during processing or preparation because of its flavour enhancing effects. Various processed and prepared foods, such as traditional seasonings, stocks, sauces, canned soups, can therefore contain significant levels of free glutamate, both from natural sources and from added MSG.

Several recent reviews of the scientific evidence have confirmed that MSG is safe for the general population at the levels typically found in food. While a small percentage of the population may experience a mild hypersensitivity-type reaction when large amounts of MSG are consumed in a single meal, MSG does not appear to be a significant trigger of more serious allergic (immune system mediated) reactions or asthmatic attacks.

MSG is regulated as a food additive in the joint Food Standards Code, and therefore must be identified in the ingredient list of packaged foods. The presence of MSG can be declared by name or as a 'flavour enhancer' followed by the food additive code number. Glutamates are identified by the food additive code numbers 621 to 625 inclusive, with MSG designated as 621.

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

Does the "glutamatergic system" have anything to do with MSG?

Is this the same as MSG?

Separate preclinical studies have previously demonstrated that natural cannabinoids such as THC and cannabidiol (CBD) are neuroprotective against ethanol-induced cell death, cerebral infarction, and glutamate toxicity. Glutamate, a neurotransmitter, may be produced at toxic levels following strokes or severe head trauma often leading to irreversible brain damage.

More at
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=6995

[Michaelangelica]

http://english.ohmynews.com/articlev...13597&rel_no=1

Another less-publicized probable cause of obesity is the role played by the food additive E-621, or MSG (monosodium glutamate). Scientists in Spain have established a link between MSG and increased appetite. The substance MSG (sometimes called hydrolyzed vegetable protein), which is used by the food industry as a flavor enhancer, was found to produce a 40 percent increase in appetite in experiments on rats.

Critics of the food industry charge that MSG is used in such a way as to get consumers hooked to their products. More militant critics like John and Michelle Erb, co-authors of "The Slow Poisoning of America," believe that the food industry uses MSG as "their own brand of nicotine designed to addict you to their products."

It is believed that MSG could be a key factor behind obesity, particularly in children. Statistics show that from 1980 to 2000, the number of obese children and teenagers in the U.S. almost tripled. Health authorities around the world are raising alarm signals as the faltering health of fat people weigh heavily on health budgets. The projections for the future are even more alarming.

[Michaelangelica]

Can any biologists out there tell me more about this please?

The clock gene Per2 influences the glutamatergic system and modulates alcohol consumption.
Spanagel R, Pendyala G, ..., Schumann G, Albrecht U
Nat Med 2005 Jan 11(1):35-42

"This was the first demonstration that the clock gene Per2..."
Evaluated by Faculty of 1000 Biology member Markus Heilig (National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, United States of America)

http://www.f1000biology.com/article/id/1032401

[Michaelangelica]

WHY?
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/food/283003_chou30.html

But Old El Paso, a General Mills brand, has just launched two new flavors of taco shell: salsa and nacho.

I kid you not.

Yes, the crispy corn taco shell is "new and improved" with an infusion of salsa flavor (tomato powder, onion powder, garlic powder, chemicals and red dye No. 40) or nacho flavor (MSG, chili powder, onion powder, yeast extracts, chemicals and yellow dye No. 5 and No. 6).

So what was wrong with the standard taco shell? Was it too boring?

According to the official word from the Old El Paso marketing team: "Our new nacho and salsa flavored shells offer fun, tasty alternatives to the plain corn shells."

advertising
I thought the point of the taco was the filling. That's why if you travel throughout Mexico, you will find infinite combinations -- and they're never as pedestrian as ground beef and shredded iceberg.