MSG - "Poisoning" chain letter meme

[Michaelangelica]

I didn't know that we have taste buds for MSG.
I just thought we had salt sour sweet, bitter
MSG dos't taste of anything to me.

The finding contrasts with the notion that individual tongue cells detect more than one type of taste and send a complicated pattern of signals to the brain to determine which of five basic taste categories it fits in: sour, sweet, salty, bitter, or umami (the taste of monosodium glutamate, MSG).

Instead, researcher Charles Zuker of the Howard Hughes Medical Institute in La Jolla, Calif., says the sour receptors are found in a subgroup of taste receptor cells that do not detect sweet, bitter, or umami tastes.

The finding is "very interesting," says Zuker, in a news release, "because it seals the case that we had built before with sweet, bitter, and umami, showing that each taste is mediated by fully dedicated sensors."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n1931096.shtml

[Michaelangelica]

More on the so called "taste of MSG.
Do othres have the same problem identifing it?

This is from a pro-MSG article.

Is anyone reading this or will I just stop posting these articles?

These days, though, umami, which translates roughly as "deliciousness," is accepted in the culinary world as an honest to goodness fifth flavor. Scientists have even identified the receptors on our tongues that allow us to taste it.

Umami may be a more subtle kind of flavor than its four brethren, but most people can easily recognize it. Describing it is a bit more difficult. Think of the flavors of these foods: parmesan cheese, bacon, soy sauce. Recognize what they have in common? A depth of flavor, a fullness that brings out the best of what they're cooked with -pasta with parmesan, spinach and bacon, rice and soy sauce.

Scientifically, umami is the taste of some of the most abundant amino acids in our diets, glutamate, inosinate and guanylate.
Why humans are so hot for umami isn't completely understood, although it may have to do with the fact that glutamates are abundant in breast milk and other protein-rich foods, like meat and cheese, soy products and many kinds of seafood.

But not all umami-rich foods are high in protein.
The much-maligned food additive MSG (monosodium glutamate) is umami whipped up in a lab, as are the food additives hydrolyzed soy protein, autolyzed yeast and sodium caseinate.

Vegetarians can find umami in shitake mushrooms, sweet and white potatoes, Chinese cabbage, carrots, seaweed and green tea. Even condiments can be full of umami, which may be why every region of the world seems to have a bottle of something to sprinkle on a meal. Soy sauce, fish sauce, even ketchup, are rich in umami.

A lot more at
http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dl...1028/OPINION02

[Michaelangelica]

Is this the same Glutamate as in MSG?

Is that what the receptors are there for?

If so; anyone know why?

Glutamate is a major excitatory neurotransmitter in the CNS.

The signalling machinery consists of: glutamate receptors, which are responsible for signal input; plasma glutamate transporters, which are responsible for signal termination; and vesicular glutamate transporters for signal output through exocytic release.

Recently, data have suggested that the glutamatergic system plays an important role in non-neuronal tissues.

In addition, the expression of glutamatergic system has been implicated in tumour biology. This review outlines the evidence, which suggests that the glutamatergic system may have an important role in cancer biology.
http://www.expertopin.com/doi/abs/10...784.14.12.1487

[billg]

Glutamate is one of the most abundant neurotransmitters in the nervous system. When released by one neuron, it binds to glutamate receptors on nearby neurons, exciting them, causing them to fire action potentials (the electrical signals that travel down the neuron). It is the major way a signal is passed from one neuron to the next. Any drug that affects the nervous system (so basically any drug) will eventually indirectly affect the "glutamatergic system", and many many genes will ultimately contribute to it's functioning. The clock gene per2 is just one example of thousands that will no doubt influence the glutamatergic system.

MSG is mono-sodium glutamate - it is precisely the same chemical with a sodium tacked on the end. So it can affect the same neurotransmitters, directly.

Excitotoxicity is a term given for when glutamate fails to break down or too much is released, and the glutamate causes the neurons in the vicinity to fire very strongly for prolonged amounts of time. This can kill the neurons. This is one of the major factors in causing brain damage in stroke victims - cell burst open releasing glutamate which then causes excitotoxicity.

MSG could potentially cause some excitotoxicity and neuronal death. I'd worry more about the research that suggests contributes to obesity because it's levels drop off quickly leaving you hungrier sooner, than it's role as an excitotoxin.

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by billg

Glutamate is one of the most abundant neurotransmitters in the nervous system.
Any drug that affects the nervous system (so basically any drug) will eventually indirectly affect the "glutamatergic system", and many many genes will ultimately contribute to it's functioning. The clock gene per2 is just one example of thousands that will no doubt influence the glutamatergic system.

MSG is mono-sodium glutamate - it is precisely the same chemical with a sodium tacked on the end. So it can affect the same neurotransmitters, directly.

Excitotoxicity is a term given for when glutamate fails to break down or too much is released, and the glutamate causes the neurons in the vicinity to fire very strongly for prolonged amounts of time. This can kill the neurons. This is one of the major factors in causing brain damage in stroke victims - cell burst open releasing glutamate which then causes excitotoxicity.

MSG could potentially cause some excitotoxicity and neuronal death.
I'd worry more about the research that suggests contributes to obesity because it's levels drop off quickly leaving you hungrier sooner, than it's role as an excitotoxin.

Thanks for the explanation.
I asked a Doctor friend to explain it to me he said

I. . . This refers to glutamate or glutamine (the amide of glutamic acid) as a neurotransmitter. You may remember that glutamine and glutamic acid (base is glutamate) are amino acids, used as neurotransmitters as well as making protein. I seem to remember mostly in the CNS and I think mostly inhibitory, although not so sure about the last.

I presume that MSG is that same glutamate base although I have never really thought about it. I expect MSG would dissociate to glutamate in solution. Thus MSG could be used as substrate for the glutatergic system. No doubt has lots of regulators on absorbtion etc. Probably only significant when diet deficient in glutamate, doubt if excess leads to "overdrive" of glutamatergic system since very few if any examples of dietary excess of other neurotransmitters doing same.

I have pasted the citations of some recent refs from Pubmed search on role as neurotransmitter.

[Glutamate in brain: transmitter and poison]
Glas Srp Akad Nauka [Med]. 2002;(47):55-76. Review. Serbian.
PMID: 16078441 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

GABA and glutamate receptors in the horizontal limb of diagonal band of Broca (hDB): effects on cardiovascular regulation.
Exp Brain Res. 2005 Nov;167(2):268-75. Epub 2005 Nov 15.
PMID: 16034575 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

The role of nitric oxide on glutaminergic modulation of dopaminergic activation.
Pharmacol Res. 2005 Oct;52(4):298-301.
PMID: 15939623 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

For me,In large, does it certainly acts as aneuro-excitor and gets my heart pumping just like amphetamine.
Perhaps I should start selling pills of it to teenagers at Dance Parties and Clubs???

Re Obesity, see the Obesity Why are we getting fat thread.
MSG added to the mashed potatoes of people in a retirement home made them eat more!

[Michaelangelica]

Does this mean there are links with MSG and alcoholism?
The Japanese knok a bit of both back!
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=16514102

Collectively, these data establish glutamate as a link between dysfunction of the circadian clock gene Per2 and enhanced alcohol intake.
Revue / Journal Title
Nature medicine (Nat. med.) ISSN 1078-8956

[Michaelangelica]

This links up with a lot of the mushroomy threads and depression (clinical)

Plumbing the Depths Of Depression
Scientists Hope A New Tool Will Tap Into the Source Of the Blues

By Neely Tucker
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, September 26, 2006; Page C01

Ketamine, sweet ketamine, answer to our glutamatergic dreams. In the long November night of the soul, in the ever-dark downpour of depression, it turns out that there might be a better umbrella than Prozac and Zoloft and Paxil and their serotonin-loving ilk.

Of course, when it comes to antidepressants, nobody really knows anything, anyway, so why not go with ketamine, a mild hallucinogen known to club freaks as Special K?


Yes, yes, break out the male Wistar rats and the injection needles -- researchers at the National Institute of Mental Health announced a study recently in which 18 chronically depressed patients infused with low dosages of ketamine improved within two hours. Seventy-one percent improved within a day, and nearly 30 percent were depression-free by that time. In 24 hours! These were people who had been dealing with depression from three to 47 years. They had failed to respond to just about every drug on the market.

Most of them stayed depression-free for up to a week.

Chronic depression, one of the most common, debilitating diseases known to mankind, blown away like a flower petal on a passing breeze

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...092501387.html
A very interesting article

Now there's this target of glutamate, coming in the form of ketamine

. It's a cousin of PCP, though, and is mainly used as an anesthetic for pets -- hence one of its nicknames, "cat Valium." People sometimes break into vet clinics to get it, for use as a club drug.

Perhaps my idea of flogging MSG pills at dance parties is not so far-fetched after all ?!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2501387_4.html

[Michaelangelica]

How? and Why? would you make fake MSG????????!!!!!

A walk through the museum shows all kinds of duplicate goods such as clothing and consumer items. Fake correction fluid, fake Playboy belly-button rings, even fake MSG -- the monosodium glutamate seasoning may look authentic, but is chemically distant from the real McCoy.

Counterfeit products are everywhere, legal consultant with Tilleke and Gibbins Areera Ratanayu explains

.
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=35003

[CraigD]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

How? and Why? would you make fake MSG????????!!!!!
.
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=35003

From reading the linked-to article, I’d say people make and sell fake MSG for the same reason they make and sell most fakes – for profit.

Manufacturing MSG requires a fairly costly fermentation and evaporation process. I suspect that you could make a fake for a fraction of the usual cost, by adding something like soy sauce to fine sea salt, and sell it to unsuspecting food businesses. At a quick taste, it would seem to be genuine MSG, but it wouldn’t stimulate the unami taste receptor cells on your tongue, so wouldn’t really enhance the flavor of foods.

Shady business, fakes.

[Michaelangelica]

Watch when you go travelling

According to the program, 10 Chinese restaurants in Seoul put 4 to 22 grams of MSG in a bowl of chajangmyon, which weighs on average 700 grams.

With an ongoing controversy over the dangers of MSG, the program interviewed some people who complained of headaches or higher blood pressure after eating chajangmyon.

http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nati...9080911990.htm