MSG - "Poisoning" chain letter meme

[mynah]

Here is an interesting explanation I've read:

MSG sensitivity has also been called "Chinese restaurant syndrome" - although it does not occur (or rarely occurs) in China. Apparently the stuff is most potent when taken on an empty stomach. In Chinese foods, it is mostly used in soup, which is traditionally served first in the West, but in between other food in china.

I've seen someone apparently (though briefly) at death's door after a Chinese meal, and have experienced the symptoms myself (though never in the East). Solution: Read the labels, and if you have to have something with MSG, eat some additive-free food first.

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by mynah

Here is an interesting explanation I've read:

MSG sensitivity has also been called "Chinese restaurant syndrome" - although it does not occur (or rarely occurs) in China. Apparently the stuff is most potent when taken on an empty stomach. In Chinese foods, it is mostly used in soup, which is traditionally served first in the West, but in between other food in china.

I've seen someone apparently (though briefly) at death's door after a Chinese meal, and have experienced the symptoms myself (though never in the East). Solution: Read the labels, and if you have to have something with MSG, eat some additive-free food first.

almost everthing has MSG in it now

The only really bad reaction I have had is in a japanese restaurant where MSG was continuously shaken on the BBQd food
I had heat palpitations, extreme agitation,- abit like taking amphetamine.
I could not sleep for 24 hours and then collapsed into an incoherent mess for another 24 hours..

Here is one japanese version of "don't give me MSG or I will die" ( below)

[Michaelangelica]

The Slow Poisoning of America - MSG

Between MSG and High Fructose Corn Syrup, the majority of americans are poisoning themselves on a daily basis. These two ingrediants are in nearly everything and with prolonged exposure can do some MAJOR damage to your body.

I have another article on my blog about HFCS (high fructose corn syrup) you may feel inclined to read. I’m sure you’ve seen the commercials about corn syrup if you live in the US that goes on about how safe it is.

She states, What? That it’s made of corn? What she doesn’t say is corn syrup itself is so broken down in the process that it has to be rebuilt by man, and is therefore no longer a natural substance. In fact it’s closer to being a plastic then it is corn. Talk about a major attempt to brainwash the unsuspecting consumer! ~Kat

The Slow Poisoning of America - MSG Kat’s Musings

[chriswhite]

Originally Posted by Buffy

Its really hard to find any unbiased info on the topic. Does anyone know anything definitive?

Cheers,
Buffy

I spent some time researching this. i too found very little unbiased data.
However i came to the conclusion that these "exitotoxins" like MSG and ASPARTAME are very bad news and can have extreamly severe neurological effects.

see the movie "sweet misery" online too

[chriswhite]

The thing that shocked me was that the idea that is wasnt dangerous was based on the idea that there would be no iteration between the blood-brain barrier, and there are several common reasons that a blood-brain barrier would be porous.

[Michaelangelica]

My blood -brain barrier has been compromised since I was 12. last week fixed by surgery. was this the problem?

It would be very difficult to design an experiment to show my type of reaction to MSG

If you took a random sample of 10,000 people maybe one or two might have a reaction. this would not be statistically significant. Only to the two affected ( With a peanut allergy one could be dead -still not statistically significant)

You could ask people who thought they had an allergy, do cognitive and physiological tests before and after MSG
Again, poor research design which may be howled down by the scientific community

You could feed rats MSG to find LD50 and find MSG was extremely safe.

How could research be designed? I would love to do some.

here is some work that has been done

The monosodium glutamate symptom complex: assessment in a double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized study.
BACKGROUND: Considerable debate swirls about the validity of symptoms described by many people after ingestion of monosodium glutamate (MSG), and the question has remained unresolved largely because of a paucity of well-designed challenge studies.
. . .
METHODS: We conducted oral challenge studies in self-identified MSG-sensitive subjects to determine whether they had a statistically significant difference in the incidence of their specific symptoms after ingestion of MSG compared with placebo.
. . .
Rechallenge revealed an apparent threshold dose for reactivity of 2.5 gm MSG.
. . ..
The mechanism of the reaction remains unknown, but symptom characteristics do not support an IgE-mediated mechanism. According to Food and Drug Administration recommendations, the symptoms, originally called the Chinese restaurant syndrome, are better referred to as the MSG symptom complex.

The monosodium glutamate symptom complex: assessme...[J Allergy Clin Immunol. 1997] - PubMed Result
Probably the best paper I could find without doing a Ph.D..
So, as i found in my case, reaction is dose dependant. Does this build up or does it have to be given in one hit? Does the health of the subject at the time effect/affect this?

I don't know how strictly medical studies like this help

Stimulation of the parabrachial nuclei with monosodium glutamate increases arterial pressure.
. . .
glutamate injections within this area led to decreases in mean arterial pressure
Stimulation of the parabrachial nuclei with monosodium glutamate increases arterial pressure.

Activity increase associated with obesity induced by monosodium glutamate in mice
Activity increase associated with obesity induced by monosodium glutamate in mice -- Araujo and Mayer 225 (4): 764 -- AJP - Legacy

The induction of obesity in rodents by means of monosodium glutamate
CJO - Abstract - The induction of obesity in rodents by means of monosodium glutamate

Brain Lesions, Obesity, and Other Disturbances in Mice Treated with Monosodium Glutamate
In newborn mice subcutaneous injectionis of monosodium glutamate induced acute neuronal necrosis in several regions of developing brain including the hypothanamus

Brain Lesions, Obesity, and Other Disturbances in Mice Treated with Monosodium Glutamate -- Olney 164 (3880): 719 -- Science
there are a lot of studies on this topic

The Safety Evaluation of Monosodium Glutamate1
. . .
The conclusions of a subsequent review by the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology (FASEB) and the Federal Drug Administration (FDA) did not discount the existence of a sensitive subpopulation but otherwise concurred with the safety evaluation of JECFA and the SCF.

The Safety Evaluation of Monosodium Glutamate -- Walker and Lupien 130 (4): 1049 -- Journal of Nutrition
i.e.,
MSG is safe; except for. . ?

Monosodium Glutamate induces Convulsive Disorders in Rats

H. N. BHAGAVAN*, D. B. COURSIN* & C. N. STEWART†

*Research Institute, St Joseph Hospital, Lancaster, Pennsylvania 17604
†Department of Psychology, Franklin and Marshall College, Lancaster, Pennsylvania 17604

THE physiological and pharmacological effects of L-glutamate have received much attention since its implication in the aetiology of the "Chinese restaurant syndrome"1−3. Although an excess of L-glutamic acid (GA) as the monosodium salt (MSG) was known to cause retinopathy in experimental animals4−7, brain lesions have been noticed only recently8−10.
There seems to be no agreement about its pharmacological and neurophysiological effects in humans11 and experimental animals12
.

Monosodium Glutamate induces Convulsive Disorders in Rats

Monosodium Glutamate Effects

John W. Olney, Norma Jean Adamo, and Albert Ratner

No abstract or summary view of this item is available. To view the full-text version, follow this link.

Article topics:

* Physiology..Rats
* Physiology..Rodentia
* Neuroscience..Glutamate
* Physiology..Mice
* Medicine..Pediatric and Congenital Heart Disease
* Endocrinology..Ovaries
* Physiology..Ovary
* Medicine..Necrosis

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conten...n/172/3980/294
Does anyone have access to this article?

Locomotor and learning deficits in adult rats exposed to monosodium-Image -glutamate during early life
The results indicate that exposure to MSG in early life in rats could lead to subtle behavioral aberrations in late adulthood.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...5b2f3576ed69b8
So that's what is wrong with me (

77 articles here mostly on brain lesions as they are something that can be easily scientifically controlled and measured.
Unlike all that messy human behavioural stuff.
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/search...lemhwcomptitle

[Michaelangelica]

A whole web-site for people who have problems with MSG!
Front Porch Productions asks if migraines, fibromyalgia, or stomach problems are caused by MSG (monosodium glutamate) or aspartame.

Is this the book Buffy was talking about when she started this thread?

This page had some intersting comments and observations about St John's Wort (Hypericum perforatum)
Battling the MSG Myth: St. John's Wort and Glutamate

[Buffy]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

Is this the book Buffy was talking about when she started this thread?

I looked at a bunch of sites at the time, and I think this may have been one of them. What really sparked the thread was that my step-dad was an inveterate forwarder of chain-letter memes like this one, and it was fuzzy enough that it was not fodder for Snopes or other debunking methods.

All of these outside-the-mainstream health issues really should have more attention paid to them, mainly because their "truthiness" is so hard to pin down.

I've always been skeptical of the vaccine-autism link claim, but I can tell you that I am indeed allergic to Aspartame and Acesulfame-K: they both raise my heart rate and the latter actually gives me headaches.

Since there's no real commercial benefit from investigating this stuff, they're all ongoing mysteries that could be much worse than anyone imagines.

So when someone says government programs are all evil, ask them how any potential health dangers will ever be discovered....

He defers to economic interests over the public health, to executive agencies over the Congress, and to secrecy over the public's right-to-know... He's always tweaking the facts to the benefit of insiders,
Buffy

[Boerseun]

Seems we not only detect sweet, sour, salt and bitter, but we have receptors for a fifth flavour, called "umami".

This receptor picks up glutamates, and monosodium glutamate is added to food to tickle this particular tastebud.

This "taste" was proposed in 1908 and the existence of the receptors were confirmed in 2000.

This is not a Japanese phenomenon or anything strange, lobster meat, crabs, shrimp, parmesan cheese etc. are all rolling in MSG, though nothing more than the naturally occurring levels - reactions to Japanese food may be due to too much added MSG. If you use Soy sauce in cooking, it's because your body craves MSG.

It's as natural as water. But, like water, if you consume too much of it, you will probably die - or be very uncomfortable, in the very least.

MSG is not evil, though - the Japanese add it to their food because we've got receptors for it and crave it. They merely identified it and slapped a label on it.

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by Boerseun

Seems we not only detect sweet, sour, salt and bitter, but we have receptors for a fifth flavour, called "umami".

This receptor picks up glutamates, and monosodium glutamate is added to food to tickle this particular tastebud.

This "taste" was proposed in 1908 and the existence of the receptors were confirmed in 2000.

I cannot taste MSG.
The concept of umani is foreign to me, yet i am allergic to MSG in high doses or when my immune system is 'down" or overloaded(?).

This is not a Japanese phenomenon or anything strange

,
The Japanese seem to handle it OK. Is their a genetic factor here?