Placebo

[matrixscarface]

How could a placebo work? its clear and obvious that they do work.. if your a non believer, just look at mythbusters about the sea sickness.. placebo's came into play and actually work. im thinking a neurological affect.. anyone know for sure?

[InfiniteNow]

The healing power of a thought is pretty amazing. The neural setup is a lot like expectations.

Let's say you are going to a party and expect to have an aweful time. Well, oddly enough, you generally do 90% of occurances.

Now, let's say you go to a party and you really want to have a wonderful time. Well, you generally will because you've decided in advance to do this.

See also: Self-fulfilling prophecy


There's been tons of research on the placebo effect, and more or less, it shows that more often than chance, if we think the "sugar pill" will heal us, we will feel healed. EDIT: Will "be" healed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo_effect



There's also some cool research on electro-convulsive therapy (ECT) involving the expectations of the participant on who is delivering the shocks and how intensity is measured and perceived...


I don't have a full explanation, but it does involve a pretty cool interplay between the conscious mind, the unconscious mind, and our biology. Now, the reason I have a tough time offering explanation is because I have not yet arrived at a suitable explanation for "what is a conscious mind?" nor "what is an unconscious mind?"

[billg]

I think it's important to remember we are a single organism. Our brain and our body are all part of the same system. If you think of our higher brain, our conscious mind, as being separate from the subconscious brain that regulates our body via hormones and other signals, then it's impossible to understand how a placebo might work from a materialist perspective. But our higher brain is not separated from the rest of our brain. Some parts of our brain that have subconscious activity, but it affects our conscious thought: for example, the suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN) has a direct connection with the eye, and when it picks up low levels of light around dusk, it releases chemicals that make us feel tired. The placebo effect, I think, is the reverse of this - it's when we consciously believe we are going to get better, which gives "encouragement" to parts of our brain that regulate healing, and optimises them. This implies that when we are sick, parts of our brain that regulate health are working at a sub-optimal level - being inhibited by our conscious or preconscious brain - and the placebo removes this inhibition.

This isn't the result of any empirical evidence, but it's certainly plausible, and the only theory of placebo action I've heard of.

[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by billg

for example, the suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN) has a direct connection with the eye, and when it picks up low levels of light around dusk, it releases chemicals that make us feel tired.

Melatonin

Originally Posted by billg

The placebo effect, I think, is the reverse of this - it's when we consciously believe we are going to get better, which gives "encouragement" to parts of our brain that regulate healing, and optimises them.

Sort of. This reminds me of "smile therapy," popularized on television show called Ally McBeal a few years back. When the happy chemicals in our brain are released, it causes muscles in our face to reorient somewhat and results in a smile and lessened tension around the eyes and behind the ears. By smiling consciously (intentionally), the same mechanisms and muscles and nerve cells are used, and the happy chemicals are released after the smile (instead of before it as a trigger)... It's a very minor effect, but occurs all the same.

I liken it to something like hydraulics... push here, something happens over there, and works in both directions.


There actually is a whole world of literature on the placebo effect. Google can take you on a fantastic voyage when searching with this term. Here are a few decent ones...

http://www.placebo.ucla.edu/
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2000/100_heal.html
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medi...p?newsid=29624
http://symptomresearch.nih.gov/chapt...2/cmms2pg1.htm

[Drip Curl Magic]

as a great man once said "you create the reason for your existance"

Reality is only perception deep.

Percieve that you are well... and you will be fine.

[hallenrm]

If it's all the play of mind and conciousness, any chemical substance or an action should be equally effective.

Is it so?

[billg]

For a drug or medicine to be approved, it has to be shown to have a greater than mere placebo effect. "Percieve that you are well... and you will be fine" is not accurate, because the placebo effect has only a limited effect on actual healing, and a larger effect on pain relief. The mind may, in extraordinary circumstances, be able to totally block out pain - as in the accounts of solider with who had limbs blown off but remained conscious and experienced no pain - but merely perceiving that your leg isn't blown off isn't going to change the fact that you can't walk and are in serious danger of dying of blood loss. Similarly, perceiving that you are well and don't have cancer is not going to help you if you do. The placebo effect certainly doesn't compare to drugs that have been clinically tested and approved.

[Drip Curl Magic]

I believe, that at this point in our evolution... we are limited. I think we have more control than we believe.

eventually, I want to prove that it is possible to do more than just block pain out.

look at stephen hawking. He was supposed to die so long ago. But he just didn't.

No medical science can explain it.

I think he has an amazingly strong mind... and is just determined to live.

mentality plays a far larger role on the physical realm than any of us think.

[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by Drip Curl Magic

I believe, that at this point in our evolution... we are limited. I think we have more control than we believe.

I like where you're heading with your ideas DCM (not that this matters at all to you, just wanted to mention it...). It might change the magnitude of the issue if you replace the word "we" with "I." It's a good place to start anyway...

Originally Posted by Drip Curl Magic

mentality plays a far larger role on the physical realm than any of us think.

No. I think the role it plays is very large indeed. This concept has come up in another thread recently, but our emotions have a very direct impact on our immune system. There have also been a bunch of studies recently discussing people actually dying from a "broken heart." Pretty cool stuff...


Anyway, keep on keepin' on.

[Drip Curl Magic]

Originally Posted by InfiniteNow

I like where you're heading with your ideas DCM (not that this matters at all to you, just wanted to mention it...).

it matters a great deal to me when people are able to connect with me on my thought process.

Thank you for the acknowledgment (if that's even the right word).