A cure for AIDS?

[BlameTheEx]

I found an article here:

http://www.aids.org/atn/a-033-03.html

"However, no human or animal scientific tests have studied its effectiveness when used orally as an antiviral."

Similar conclusion here:

http://www.catie.ca/supple-e.nsf/0/9d416a2009131fd88525689e006c3f81?OpenDocument

"The American Food and Drug Administration (FDA) recognizes monolaurin as safe enough to use as a food additive. Some people taking monolaurin have experienced drowsiness so users may prefer to take the capsules at bedtime. Finally, since we are unable to find reports of controlled studies using monolaurin, we can't be certain that monolaurin provides any clinical benefit."

A study was promissed here:

http://www.netasia.net/users/UCAP/news-feb-18-1999.htm

" Dr. Eric Tayag of SLH will be the primary investigator of the clinical trials on monolaurin.* Subjects will consist of fifteen HIV positive patients.* They will be divided into three groups consisting of five patients per group.* The first group will be given a "high dose" of monolaurin three times a day; the second group will be given a "low dose"; and the third group will be given coconut oil three times a day for a total of 45 mL per day.* Monolaurin will be administered in capsule form.* In addition, all groups will receive multivitamins."

The study is not adequate with too small a sample, and no mention of a control group, let alone use of "double blind" to eliminate the placebo effect! I can't find the results if it was ever carried out.

There is a report of the rather mixed results here:

http://www.emergingworlds.com/ch_article.cfm?link=Coconut_oil_could_check_the_ai ds_virus.htm

You must wonder at the impartiality of this article which includes the following quote: "No evidence has ever been presented to prove that coconut oil causes coronary heart disease in humans."

My conclusion is that all evidence I have found comes from people selling the pure drug, or coconut oil. It more advertising than scientific proof.

All told It is believable that Monolaurin has some effect, but it is no wonder drug. It will not cure HIV, but it just might help a little in reducing the viral load.

There is still no cure for HIV. All that can be done is offer a cocktail of treatments that prolong the patients life. The patient remains infectious, and (as Monolaurin is clearly not sufficient in itself) the treatments used leave the immune system weakened. Health, and life expectancy are still severely affected.

[TINNY]

Blame, thanks for the response. That was the kind of response I was hoping for. :-)

One thing I find confusing is that monolaurin is a lipid and lipids get broken up into fatty acids and glycerol in the digestion system. The fatty acid (lauric acid) is not an antiviral substance. Therefore, how can it be effective when taken orally? It should instead be injected into the arteries.

[Freethinker]

Originally Posted by pgrmdave

Do you mean to imply that religion is only immoral, or simply that there are instances of immorallity within religion? Do you really need me to provide examples of "extreme immorality" of science?

What I was showing was that religion, especially those montheistic revelation based ones, have an extensive history of promoting highly immoral and unethical tenets. This can be solidily established by taking any number of the well documented attrocities and the like establish the religion of the instigators and find written tenets in their source of revekation which promoted their efforts. e.g. "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" ties directly in with the witch burnings. No one could possibly even try to disassociate the two. There is a 100% correlation between the bible and the direct act of killing "witches".

Now try to do the same for science. First show us the written estbiashed list of moral and ethical tenets accepted by the Scientific community and then specific attrocities or "extreme immoralit(ies)" which can be directly tied to it.

Did the Christian directed efforts of genocide promoted by Hitler result in "extreme immorality" by some of the Dr's at the extermination camps? Yes. Did the Dr's claim they were doing science? Yes. But show us where written established sientific tenets were the mitigating factor. Give us the specific scientific tenets and where they exist in an agreed written source.

While it is very easy to show the specific passages in the bible which would allow a Christian to justify their actions. Along with the correlation Hitler himself established between his "Final Solution" to rid the world of Christ Killers Jews and the bible and its god.

When someone does something, there are usually many factors that are the motivational forces. Some have established written tenets. Some are arbitrary at best. Using the Holocust again, science and religion could both be shown to be involved. Science developed much of the process, the deadly gasses. Religion developed the specific reasons for the effort in the first place.

So while you may wish to promote that science was the "extreme immorality" because it provided a very efficient method, there is nothing in science which can be shown to be the motivating factor. But religion can. Yes we couold go into the scio-political issues also. But the specific delineation was based on religious identification and written tenets for the religion.

So yes, I accept your offer. "provide examples of "extreme immorality" of science". But in each case also provide the agreed written scientific tenets that were being followed by it's adherants that are the direct cause of the immorality.

[TINNY]

Did the Christian directed efforts of genocide promoted by Hitler result in "extreme immorality" by some of the Dr's at the extermination camps? Yes. Did the Dr's claim they were doing science? Yes. But show us where written established sientific tenets were the mitigating factor. Give us the specific scientific tenets and where they exist in an agreed written source.

So while you may wish to promote that science was the "extreme immorality" because it provided a very efficient method, there is nothing in science which can be shown to be the motivating factor.

i thought fascism had something to do with eugenics and social darwinism. The issue is discussed in this book by Paul Crook, one of the associate editors of the Australian Journal of Politics & History.

Link to Amazon book
Link to Amazon book

The concept of maintaining racial supremacy through breeding, known as eugenics, which the Spartans had implemented, and which Plato defended by the words, "Our warrior-athletes must be vigilant like watch-dogs," re-emerged in the Western world with Darwinism. Darwin devoted whole chapters in The Origin of Species to discussing the "improvement of animal races," and maintained, in The Descent of Man, that human beings were a species of animal. Some time later, Darwin's cousin, Francis Galton, was to take his uncle's claims a step further, and put forward the modern theory of eugenics. (Nazi Germany would be the first state to implement eugenics as official policy).

As we have seen, Darwin's theory seems to be a concept that concerns only the science of biology, but it actually formed the basis for a totally new political outlook. Within a very short time, this new attitude was redefined as "Social Darwinism." And as many historians have come to accept, Social Darwinism became the ideological basis of fascism and Nazism.

The effect of Darwinism's portrayal of war and conflict as necessary has been analyzed in great detail in Paul Crook's Cambridge University publication Darwinism, War and History: The Debate over the Biology of War from 'The Origin of Species' to the First World War. Crook has made it clear that by presenting war as a "biological necessity," Darwinism formed both the formal justification for the First World War, as well as for various other warlike tendencies in fascism. Crook writes:

Darwinist discourse conferred approval on a range of doctrines glorifying power, status, elitism, conquest and repression. Differences between cultures, genders, classes and races were reduced to fixed biological differences, imprinted in humans during eons of selective struggle. Darwin's conflict model generated militarist and racist extrapolations that conferred approval on war and imperial struggle as 'biological necessities'.9

From such [Darwinist] assumptions, a variety of unpleasant consequences could be derived... War is rationalised... As Frederick Wertham has argued, if violence 'is all in human nature, and if we are all guilty, then nobody is guilty. And if we are all responsible, no man is responsible' ...The First World War was portrayed as the final vindication of the mythology of bestiality, encoded anew in terms of neo-Darwinian genetics and instinct theory.

Darwin thought of using Hobbes's phrase 'war of nature' as a heading to his chapter on struggle in his projected 'big book' Natural Selection ...He spoke of creatures 'overmastering' one another: 'through his continual use of highly dramatic language representing the life of organisms in nature as some heroic war, with attendant battles, victories, famine, dearth, and destruction, Darwin creates the image of a great literal struggle for existence - an image which pervades the Origin.'

Darwin not only proposed that human beings were a "species" descended from animals, but portrayed war and conflict as "the origin of species." This fallacy would be the justification for the promotion of war and the ideology of conflict, in fact, for the growth of fascism itself.

I don't know Paul Crook well, but what he wrote seems true to me.
OK. End of story.

We were discussing whether monolaurin offers the possibility of inhibiting HIV.

[amirbedjo]

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AIDS / HIV Cure idea (update weekly), http://www.geocities.com/amirbedjo/index.html

[alxian]

nukes? get rid of the problem by starving the bug?

[whoa182]

http://www.detnews.com/2005/technolo.../B06-80530.htm

Firm stumbles upon virus killer

Besides nail fungus and cold sores, Ann Arbor's NanoBio is on way to find remedies for flu and HIV.

NanoBio Corp. didn't set out to develop a substance so powerful it can kill viruses and bacteria -- some potentially lethal -- on contact

read the rest from that link

[alexander]

The cool thing about HIVs is that they attack the antibodies then get into the antibody hold area and infest the system from beneith, its like breaking into SMS to change one of the packages to replace it to a trojan, while the system sees it as a necessary update... ( that would be a pretty clever attack) But there is another virus that had killed millions before that infected the system a similar way, ever heard of the black plaigue? The interesting thing is that there were survivors of the plaigue, and there was research on how that came to happen. It turns out that there is a gene that if mutated prevents those viruses from getting into the antibody. Perhaps we should invest in research of possible genetic mutation for people, so similar viruses dont get in...

[TINNY]

Originally Posted by alexander

It turns out that there is a gene that if mutated prevents those viruses from getting into the antibody. Perhaps we should invest in research of possible genetic mutation for people, so similar viruses dont get in...

the rather complex interconnectedness of our genes, body and environment makes it almost impossible for genetic mutation to improve our immunity and at the same time not affect other aspects of our body.

Originally Posted by whoa182

Firm stumbles upon virus killer

Besides nail fungus and cold sores, Ann Arbor's NanoBio is on way to find remedies for flu and HIV.

i find a similarity with this one and monolaurin in that it destroys the lipid coat of the virus...

[alexander]

the rather complex interconnectedness of our genes, body and environment makes it almost impossible for genetic mutation to improve our immunity and at the same time not affect other aspects of our body.

a mutation of that single gene does help out. There are people with those genes motated out in the world, and they dont seem to have any problems with their regular lives...