Depression (Clinical)

[paigetheoracle]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

He may have been concerned that the depression was a source of his creativity and inspiration and skill. It may well be, given with so many famous comics suffering from it (Peter Cook, Spike Milligan, etc). He would be aware of this too. He is a very talented, intelligent man. If he was dumber, and less gifted, he might be happier?

Well that sounds like me with my migraines

I would suggest you reach out to him and try and reconnect.

Depressed people don't reach out; they try to stay isolated. Don't recoil if he at first rejects you; that may be the disease Just try again much later; leave him with your contact details.


I could leave him my contact details but that would be all.

Can you expand on your previous post I didn't understand it.

Which part exactly?

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The Type of exercise you do when depressed may be important. Most suggest walking but according to this psychiatrist that may not be the best thing

Maria Tickle: The most common mental disorder in Australia is depression, and its personal and economic cost to society is enormous. It’s responsible for more than half of all suicides and recent research has indicated depression doubles your chances of having a heart attack. Last year alone through the PBS the government spent more than $155-million on antidepressants such as Zoloft and Arapax.

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Web Archive Copy: Sports Factor: The Mozart Maulers

If you get a chance read also Mozart's Maulers if nothing else it will make you laugh

My psych professor, from whom I learnt very little, did leave me with the concept that depression is "anger tuned inwards". There may be a component of that in my depression as I had a very aggressive dad and aggression frightens me.
Certainly self mutilation and suicide may be an example of this. Spike Milligan makes the wonderful comment that "Killing yourself only gets rid of you--not the disease"!

My migraines are anger turned inwards and like bipolar disease, throw me in one direction then another - I personally think of depression in the above as running out of steam and crashing into your own hell because running on empty burns out your engine

More from Dorian Mode (who lives locally and teaches music and may even coach football?)

Web Archive Copy: Sports Factor: The Mozart Maulers

I missed the first of the Stephen Fry documentaries you mentioned but caught the second and was impressed.

[paigetheoracle]

Originally Posted by paigetheoracle

(Please correct me if I'm wrong because although I knew him then, he doesn't want to know me know...along with my brother, an aunt, a cousin...)

Mike is the above the problem? It should of course be "know me 'now'," not "know me know" (probably too depressed to notice or care at the time): The reference to various relatives means that they don't want to talk to me either (Snubbed by one and all because of my Bugs Bunny tendencies no doubt and probably I'm going to be sacked for the same reason (currently suspended - don't pass go, don't collect £200).

I think the price for all this brilliance is the crash that follows (connection, followed by disconnection/ building followed by collapse/ self-loving by self-loathing (the day after the drunken binge and the hangover that follows).

[Michaelangelica]

Effectively Managing Pain With Depression

ScienceDaily (May 30, 2009) — Pain, the most common reason for adults to visit a primary care physician, and depression, the most frequent mental complaint requiring a doctor's appointment, occur together as often as half the time.
. ..
More study on the basic science and clinical levels needs to be done on both pain and the link between pain and depression, which may share common biological pathways, to develop better options," said Dr. Kroenke, an Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis Chancellor's Professor.

The 250 individuals in the JAMA study had low back, hip, or knee pain for three months or longer and at least moderate depression. They were randomized into two groups. The control group of 127 received usual care from their internists for both depression and pain. The other 123 received careful monitoring of the medications prescribed for their depression plus 12 weeks of pain self-management training. This training included muscle relaxation and deep breathing exercises as well as coping, distraction and other tactics.

Those whose depression medications were closely monitored and who were trained in pain self- management were two to three times more likely to have decreased depression than those in the control group.
Pain severity and disability also lessened. These benefits continued for the six months after optimising antidepressant therapy and pain self-management had been completed.

Effectively Managing Pain With Depression
%0% of people with pain have depression; interesting statistic.
I have always thought of depression as a type of pain anyway- Literally" Heartache".- Perhaps the reason heartsease (Viola tricolour) may help?

This is the post I don't understand

paigetheoracle
Re: Depression (Clinical)
I've realized that there is a kind of psychological cycle like manic-depression or bipolar disease but it is based on conscious frustration, trying to reach your goal and disappointment when you do (distance and unattainability versus attainment and proximity: Snippet in give away paper, Metro, stated that researchers in America had discovered a link between masculinity and distance in fruit flies). This is also the basis of energy and lack of it (depression and going nowhere, and elation, through having a goal to move (inspire) you into action).

[paigetheoracle]

Right, let's see if I can rephrase it to show the logic of my reasoning and the connections I make that perhaps others wouldn't.

Male aggression comes I think from wanting something but not getting it. This implies distance between the desired goal and the person wanting to obtain it as getting destroys this gap between the haves and have nots (class I see as the same thing or promotion in a job as is trying to keep up with the Jones's (fashion)). The disappointment comes I believe from realizing that the prize is never as important as the journey towards getting it. Energy and depression is about being grounded as opposed to free to roam (The injured, mentally or physically, are restricted in movement - either getting nowhere/ going nowhere or hobbling about at a reduced rate, rather than running off at top speed anywhere and everywhere their 'heart' desires). Hope this clarifies things - if not, point out particular 'heart felt' difficulties that occur in your understanding i.e. those things that perplex and therefore depress you

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by paigetheoracle

Right, let's see if I can rephrase it to show the logic of my reasoning and the connections I make that perhaps others wouldn't.

Male aggression comes I think from wanting something but not getting it.

Yes i can understand That.
But is that the full story?
For many that would engender just frustration or disappointment rather than anger. So could male overreaction be part of the problem?

• Males biologically and genetically are surely here to protected the female and children and to provide for them. Yet there seems to be a lot of occasions when this does not happen often to a criminal degree. How come this aggression so obviously against our own genetic interests?
• Males tend to need status and position in a group. Typically males define themselves as their job, unlike females who seldom seem to. The first question a male asks strange, or just met 'other', is, "What do you do?". Would threats to this status engender aggression?
• Would loosing said job lead to confusion, self-loathing and anger with self thus leading to aggression and/or depression?
• Role models. What effect does this have? "My Dad taught me to box" "My hero is Some ape like footballer". Violent video or media. Violent religions like Judaism Islam and Christianity. Violet societies (Russia? Iraq, New Guinea, Africa (bits of), Afghanistan, USA?). If one cannot relate to this violence does that make for social displacement, anger and depression?

"Happiness is overrated. Nobody ever accomplished anything great while they were happy."

[lemit]

Depression seems to have been very popular the last 20 years or so. I have been diagnosed with it numerous times and put on every new anti-depressant that comes along. They have all made me very sick with the clinical diagnosis of depression: headaches, fatigue, muscle and joint pain, loss of appetite, general malaise. I have tried St. Johns Wort--same result. Every time I have given up on an anti-depressant, I have given up on the prescribing doctor. I've become known as a "collaborative" patient. I love euphemisms.

I did finally diagnose my "depression" all by myself. I'm not going to say what it is beyond a vitamin deficiency, because I don't want people to assume that I have found a solution that will work for them. I don't even want to describe my methodology, since it's open to misinterpretation. I want people to keep trying to find their own individual solutions.

To quote "Monty Python's Life of Brian:" "Don't follow me. Don't follow anybody. You've got to think for yourself!"

--lemit

p.s. I believe very strongly in medical doctors. It's just that I also believe in myself.

[paigetheoracle]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

Yes i can understand That.
But is that the full story?
For many that would engender just frustration or disappointment rather than anger. So could male overreaction be part of the problem?

Probably

• Males biologically and genetically are surely here to protected the female and children and to provide for them. Yet there seems to be a lot of occasions when this does not happen often to a criminal degree. How come this aggression so obviously against our own genetic interests?
  
  Because of selfishness and short sightedness in males, whose only interest is in short term gratification, unlike females, who are the real care givers by role because they care for the future more than the males (child minders, not just child givers through sex)
  
• Males tend to need status and position in a group. Typically males define themselves as their job, unlike females who seldom seem to. The first question a male asks strange, or just met 'other', is, "What do you do?". Would threats to this status engender aggression?
  
  All ego stuff
  
• Would loosing said job lead to confusion, self-loathing and anger with self thus leading to aggression and/or depression?
  
  Most definitely YES
  
• Role models. What effect does this have? "My Dad taught me to box" "My hero is Some ape like footballer". Violent video or media. Violent religions like Judaism Islam and Christianity. Violet societies (Russia? Iraq, New Guinea, Africa (bits of), Afghanistan, USA?). If one cannot relate to this violence does that make for social displacement, anger and depression?

It only leads to anger and depression, if you want to be a part of it



"Happiness is overrated. Nobody ever accomplished anything great while they were happy."

Too damn true with regards to the cartoon! If we didn't want anything as the ancients teach us, we'd be happy with our lot and healthy. It is this striving to be accepted/ acceptable that is the problem ("Conform, conform - do things my way! Conform, conform - do what I say!"). As I say all ego stuff

Another obvious connection (to me at least) is erectile dysfunction and depression, which can also be artificially induced by alcohol, a depressant itself

[Michaelangelica]

Painkiller ban 'has cut suicides'

Co-proxamol
Co-proxamol is linked to fatal overdoses

The controversial withdrawal of a common painkiller has dramatically cut suicides, say researchers.

A gradual phase-out of co-proxamol led to 350 fewer suicides and accidental deaths in England and Wales, a study in the British Medical Journal reports.

Regulators removed the drug's licence in 2007 after fears about the risk of overdose but the move proved unpopular with some patients and doctors.

BBC NEWS | Health | Painkiller ban 'has cut suicides'

paigetheoracle
Another obvious connection (to me at least) is erectile dysfunction and depression, which can also be artificially induced by alcohol, a depressant itself

Blood pressure is crucial here.
Many BP medications castrate males (except for Viagra).

[Michaelangelica]

Herbs Can Treat Emotional and Mental Problems
Natural Herbs for Depression

Numerous studies are funded, then it seems that the researchers find no beneficial use in herbal products. There are many reasons for this outcome.

Most studies using Saint John’s Wort were limited to the use of standardized remedies. This is a potential problem because the effective use of herbs, proven over thousands of years, shows that healing occurs with properly prepared remedies - whole herb remedies.

One study completed in 2002, reported in the Pharmer’s Almanac (Herb Pharm), showed that the bioflavonoid compounds in Saint John’s Wort (SJW) are required for effectiveness. Standardized SJW compounds eliminate the bioflavonoid compounds.

This finding supports the importance of using whole herb remedies

Always been a bit suspicious of stardardised herbal remedies.
SJW is a weed; why pay $25 a bottle for it? (denatured at that).

[Michaelangelica]

Media Release

October 23 2009
Fish oil for treatment of depression in heart disease

Dr Narelle Berry conducts an ultrasound testA new Adelaide study will investigate whether taking fish oil capsules can reduce the symptoms of depression in people with heart disease.

As scientists around the world continue to discover more health benefits of fish oil, this latest study hopes to provide a simple, natural remedy for the depression commonly experienced by heart disease patients.

UniSA’s Nutritional Physiology Research Centre is working with the Queen Elizabeth Hospital and the University of Adelaide on the collaborative project, which has been funded by the National Heart Foundation and beyondblue.

UniSA researcher Dr Narelle Berry said there was an increasing recognition among health professionals of a strong association between heart disease and depression.

“We know that substantial numbers of people with heart disease also become depressed. We also know that having both depression and heart disease can make it harder to recover from both these conditions,” Dr Berry said.

“We are trying to evaluate a safe and simple method to help improve both depression and heart health in those with heart disease.”

Dr Berry said the study would focus on cardiovascular disease and how its impact on blood vessel function might affect the brain.

“When blood vessels are not working properly, you’re not getting adequate blood flow to the brain, so you’re not getting optimal delivery of nutrients to the brain which can adversely affect mood,” she said.

“So we’re using fish oil because it’s known to improve blood vessel function, and this might include blood vessel function in the brain.”

Dr Berry is looking for volunteers to participate in the study, but volunteers must have had a cardiovascular event (a heart attack) or been diagnosed with heart failure or coronary artery disease, and have also been feeling a bit down, which would be expected.

Half of the study participants will receive fish oil capsules, while the other half will receive a placebo capsule of safflower oil. During the trial period of six months, participants will require two visits to both UniSA’s City East Campus and the Queen Elizabeth Hospital for surveys and ultrasounds.

“Fish oil has been shown to improve blood vessel function in the peripheral circulation quite convincingly, but this study is the first one that’s actually looked directly into the brain, so we’ll be looking at whether improvements in blood vessel health in the brain improve symptoms of depression,” Dr Berry said.

People interesting in volunteering for the study or who would like an information sheet can contact research nurse Lisa Burres at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital on 8222 6305 or Dr Berry on 8302 1817.

http://www.unisa.edu.au/news/2009/231009B.asp
There are a lot of herbs that help blood supply to the brain.
Rosemary and Ginseng are two that come easily to mind.