[maikeru]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

Health Report - 9July2007 - The obesity epidemic
Insulin and leptin in obsity



EgS

I thought the link between fructose and obesity--its possible role as a signal to encourage fat creation and deposition--was a very good point.

I've read the same on a few websites, and I had one bookmarked a while back where a doctor went into quite a bit of molecular biology about how fructose, he thought, maybe was a major suspect in the obesity epidemic. The gist of it, as I understand it, is that large amounts of fructose encourage the body to start laying down a lot of fat. This could be evolution's way of helping people and animals stay in touch with the seasons and food availability, telling the body to store extra energy as fat during times of abundance. Fructose is of course found in fruits and some other foods, and when they ripen or are ready to be eaten, that would be a good time to enjoy the fruits of your labour. Using a key chemical like fructose as a signal makes good sense in this case, at least in my mind. But one thing we should note that even though fructose is abundant in fruit, its make up of total sugars in natural foods is usually very small. I'm pretty sure the amount of fructose in an apple or banana would be tiny compared to a soda, which is a concentrated source of fructose and glucose (HFCS). This scarcity and specificity makes it a good signal in natural foods and an overpowering and monstrous one in processed foods. (Also note that I'm not advocating natural, organic, or raw foods here or talking about them specifically as healthier or superior foods. Food is food, so long as it's edible. Whether it's good food or not is another matter.)

Another point which I've thought about is that fructose enters the cell's energetics by skipping a step, which would normally require the rearrangement of glucose, the cleavage of ATPs, and other chemical reactions. These actions all have energy costs. A bit of energy is lost in every step of glycolysis. Every step skipped in glycolysis is energy saved...energy spent by your cells to get certain types of chemical energy into more useful forms (ATP, the cell's favorite energy carrier). When your cells can save more, their "energy bank accounts" get bigger. You could put on a bit more weight because of that energy they save and lessened need to draw on reserves. More energy might be saved when larger amounts of sugars and carbohydrates can bypass those energy-consuming steps in glycolysis. If it does indeed act on the cell's genes and alters energy metabolism within cells and across the body, by say encouraging fat cells to lay down more fat and grow, this could be a disaster if not regulated properly.

I'll admit this is speculation. Unless I get up to date with my cell biology and biochemistry, do more research reading articles and thinking about the evidence, I can't back it up with much more than what I learned in textbooks and connecting the dots with news stories and websites.

[charles brough]

Maikeru seems to have the physiology down rather well. We not only consume a lot of glucose, but a lot of it is in the form of corn syrup. That is, we are digesting our starches for us in the manufacturing process. That saves us energy and allows more of it to be stored as fat. I notice on food labels that many products list sugar as the second (hence next to the biggest) ingredient. Then lower down, we find corn syrup listed, then high-fructose corn syrup. All that is basically the same sugar except that a little fructose has been added to the glucose. So, sugar is actually the product's main ingredient.

However, we should not overlook that the problem of obesity is not new and an abundance of sugar was not the cause in the past. For example, during the Period of Church Decedence in the 14th and 15th Century Europe, obesity was so common among the clergy that the fat monk holding up his glass of wine came to stand for the whole Church. Can we really doubt but what many of the wealthy people of Ancient Rome were obese? When people center their lives around getting material and sensual pleasure, eating becomes an important one. When a society loses its goals, what else is there to seek?

[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by charles brough

Can we really doubt but what many of the wealthy people of Ancient Rome were obese? When people center their lives around getting material and sensual pleasure, eating becomes an important one. When a society loses its goals, what else is there to seek?

High quality single-malt scotch.

[paigetheoracle]

Originally Posted by Jay-qu

laziness and diet.. our society is making things to easy for people and our food is getting worse.

Of course - It's like that graffitti "My mother made me a homosexual - If I gave her the wool, would she make me one too?' Or the criminal who murdered his parents and whose lawyer asked for leniency because he was an orphan.

It's always somebody elses fault that we're the way we are: Criminals, homosexual, fat, black, women etc. Society made me do it or made me the way I am. It could be a reaction to all the pollution in the food. It could be environmental (fat storage reaction gene in preparation for extreme cold conditions). Could this explain why two people from the same background go off in opposite directions - one to become a lawyer, the other a gangster?

[Michaelangelica]

I have just about given up on this thread
The social meme /prejuduce that over eating and under-exercise is the sole cause of obesity seems so ingrained in societies consciousness

Here is a final foray of scientific articles

Fat-burning defect in liver causes obesity
Fat-burning defect in liver causes obesity

Social networks that influence eating and leisure activities has been recently suggested as a further factor in the spread of obesity.
The Becker-Posner Blog: Social Causes of the Obesity "Epidemic"-Becker

Thus, if a mother has a poor diet during pregnancy, her fetus might predict that future food supplies will be scarce and set its metabolism to store and conserve fat.
. . .
The scientists raise the novel and exciting possibility that humans may have alternate forms, designed to be fat or thin, depending on nutritional signals received during fetal life.
NZ scientists find new clue of obesity

[maikeru]

Michaelangelica, don't give up yet. The good fight is not yet over.

I agree that it's not overeating per se so much as a specialized form of malnutrition that causes health problems and the wrong biological signals. There are reasons why folic acid or folate, iron, B vitamins, etc. are added to processed and heavily refined foods. They've been leached or processed away.

[palmtreepathos]

This is a totally new thought for me. I am startled and amazed that it has been only 25 years in hearing of this.... Prednisone use is a precursor to Syndrome X, diabetes, and obesity not to mention osteoporosis!
My weight, from stick to stalwart, DOES coordinate with a really bad bout of poison ivy and prednisone use 25 years ago! I have found a great diet to deal with it but nice to see info that does not say weak willed, slovenly, glutton at last! lol

Aol news blurbs
Diabetes Risk Factors - AOL Body page 5...

Some medications used to treat depression,like Zyprexa, and other prescription drugs, such as the steroid Prednisone, used for all sorts of illnesses from pulmonary diseases to poison ivy, have been linked to diabetes. It's important talk with your doctor and weigh the risks of not using the medication against the possible side effects of taking it, Snow says.

My sister had a recent cold not responding to antibiotics(ugh) so the ENT dr prescribed prednisone. Next visit he said my sister should see a dr about her really bad sugar numbers, and when seen, her regular dr's nurse asked outloud if "maybe the prednisone did that."! Guess that is why they call it "practicing" medicine....

more info on it and those who suffer from prednisone induced metabolic disorders.

Churg Strauss Syndrome Association -About CSSA

that last page I sent still lists avandia as a doable option, not sure that that is currently good info.

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by palmtreepathos

This is a totally new thought for me. I am startled and amazed that it has been only 25 years in hearing of this.... Prednisone use is a precursor to Syndrome X, diabetes, and obesity not to mention osteoporosis!

A young doctor friend's first job was in an Old People's Home.
He had a hard act to follow as the previous doctor was treated as a god.
He had a magic pill he put everybody on and they felt years younger and no aches and pain! Magic!
It was cortisone/Prednisone.

By the time my young friend arrived, two years later, the inmates were falling over and snapping bones like match-sticks.
Half had become bed-ridden because of bone breakages. The nursing staff were run-off-their-feet.

As you say "practicing medicine"
Steroids are great for short term emergency but to be permanently prescribed them just ripped all the calcium / straight out of the bones of the poor inmates.
People on cortisone seem to "blow up' with more water in the tissues.

[charles brough]

I lived five years in Asia and never saw fat people except Western tourists. People do not have to be starving to have normal weight. "Genetic cause" is just a convenient excuse for the obese. I see a steady stream of obese people waddling into Walmart and say to myself "these people do not care about their health or looks."

People are led by our indulgent life style to desperately need some way to prevent depression, stress, purposenessless, rootlesness and apathy. They are indulgent hoping to escape these things. Our society provides no purpose or meaning for us. Once we achieve democracy and freedom---and we find it is anything but ideal---what meaning is left in life? Look what we are doing in Iraq. We cannot even IMPOSE our way of life on others successfully.

Yet, it is not as discouraging as it seems. Our whole civilization can be replaced by a new and better one . . .

[Jay-qu]

Found this link Harry Clarke: What makes us fat?

Sounds like a good one, but I tend to think that diet is the main culprit.