[Jet2]

In that case, I think there should also be a virus to cause people skinny, right? For I do know people who eat a lot, don't work out and still stay very thin.

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by charles brough

I lived five years in Asia and never saw fat people except Western tourists. People do not have to be starving to have normal weight. "Genetic cause" is just a convenient excuse for the obese. I see a steady stream of obese people waddling into Walmart and say to myself "these people do not care about their health or looks."

.

Most australian USA TouristsI talk to comment on the vast size/amount of food given to them in USA restaurants. Some comment (unkindly) that Yanks think quantity of food= excellence of food.

Still in Australia (not Austria as you president seems to think) we have the same obesity problem.

In the posts I have made on this thread I have just suggested we look for other factors apart from the usual social prejudices/ memes about obesity. Otherwise i don't think we will ever get a solution.

[paigetheoracle]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

People on cortisone seem to "blow up' with more water in the tissues.

Fascinating - I'd always thought it must be a dietary reaction on the whole and that the body was trying to fight off some toxin by watering down in the body, where it could do less harm (Michelin man bloating is not natural and to say it is a genetic reaction to malnutrition,while it may have some truth, doesn't explain the exaggerated state of such peoples bodies in my opinion: The Pima Indians may hold the answer if it genetic because they went from slim natives under their own diet, to fat ones under ours). Not food but reaction to food or substance within it, that makes more sense.

[Buffy]

Not to minimize much of the discussion in this thread, but I thought this relevant:

Originally Posted by Rebecca Traister, Salon, 9/12/07

Spears, it seems, two children and five years of self-abuse later, no longer pleases the public with her hourglass shape. No, her ill-fitting outfit showed off a figure that was not as compact and pink as it was when she was a teenager. Sure, she looked better in a bikini than probably 98 percent of the Americans sitting on their couches and howling at her, but she was no longer porn-star perfect. And in the American lexicon, that equals fat. Wonder why your daughters have eating disorders and hate their bodies? Maybe because they're reading reports that label the thin young woman dancing around in a bra and panties physically unappealing and obese.

The point here being that there's no middle ground: Be morbidly thin, or be obese...

Killing myself so I won't die young,
Buffy

[paigetheoracle]

Originally Posted by Buffy

The point here being that there's no middle ground: Be morbidly thin, or be obese...

Killing myself so I won't die young,
Buffy

'Dedicated follower of fashion' (The Kinks).
Seems to me the problem is not being yourself (unto thine own self be true): Overweight or underweight as phenomena rather than the topic of this thread, is about lack of self-worth. The world at the moment has a surfeit of Emperors New Clothes Syndrome and too little, little boy (honesty and genuine laughter). Fat or thin wouldn't matter to anyone if they weren't out after an audience to impress (Are you happy in your skin? Fat, thin; Black, White; male, female; old, young; able, disabled; straight, gay - you name it).

[paigetheoracle]

My partner, who is a health professional (Health Visitor) reminded me of an interesting fact recently. People who go on diets, tend to put on more weight than they had pre-diet, when they come off it.

Is this because the body tries to overcompensate for the loss? Is there some other genetic explanation? Or is this just a plain myth?

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by paigetheoracle

The Pima Indians may hold the answer if it genetic because they went from slim natives under their own diet, to fat ones under ours). Not food but reaction to food or substance within it, that makes more sense.

Mystery substance X?
Contenders:- fat, trans fat, corn syrup?
Some drugs:-already implicated-eg Zyprexa

[Jay-qu]

Originally Posted by paigetheoracle

My partner, who is a health professional (Health Visitor) reminded me of an interesting fact recently. People who go on diets, tend to put on more weight than they had pre-diet, when they come off it.

Is this because the body tries to overcompensate for the loss? Is there some other genetic explanation? Or is this just a plain myth?

I would say its because most fad-diets (common ones that people pick up from hollywood etc) are not sustainable, so yeah they make you loose some weight for a while, but once you get off it your body bounces back and thinks 'hey I better store some fat in case I dont get to eat properly next month'. Ok I know your body cant 'think' but it makes sense to me

[maikeru]

Originally Posted by paigetheoracle

My partner, who is a health professional (Health Visitor) reminded me of an interesting fact recently. People who go on diets, tend to put on more weight than they had pre-diet, when they come off it.

Is this because the body tries to overcompensate for the loss? Is there some other genetic explanation? Or is this just a plain myth?

No, I think your partner isn't telling you a myth. I think weight gain after dieting is partly in response to stress placed on the body. When certain stressors are placed upon the body, the way your body heals, defends itself from disease, controls hormones, and uses energy change significantly. Some of the effects of stress can be negative, such as increased or poorly controlled inflammation, which may lead to tissue overgrowth, cellular damage, and hormonal imbalance such as higher and constant levels of cortisol. Some processes like inflammation, some hormones like cortisol, and fat seem to be tied together, because inflammation can encourage angiogenesis (growth of blood vessels) which then supports the rapid growth (and/or healing) of a tissue (say, adipose tissue), and hormones like cortisol change metabolism as well as starting a positive feedback loop that amplifies inflammation. In the short term, say during a fight-or-flight response, cortisol and other stress hormones can help mobilise energy reserves by releasing triglycerides from fat cells into the bloodstream. In the long term, say over a day to weeks or months, instead, it seems to promote weight gain, especially in the abdominal region.

In addition to these effects from inflammation, etc., if you do not eat enough and do not use your muscles as much or stay in shape, your muscles will atrophy and your body will begin to breakdown muscle protein to provide extra calories. This will further result in you not feeling hungry and not needing as much food to eat (what I wonder is if this wouldn't lead to a form of self-induced malnutrition?). Muscle protein, IIRC, usually starts to breakdown after a week. Without as much muscle to burn extra calories, after you've lost some fat and a lot of muscle during your diet, your body is "primed" to store new incoming calories into reserves first. One thing to keep in mind is it's very easy to lose muscle, hard to retain and build it. A body after dieting will probably not be inclined to rebuild lost muscle without stimulus (exercise, etc.). To avoid this, it is very important to maintain or build muscle mass and to eat sufficient amounts of high-quality, complete protein during dieting, so you can retain muscle mass. This will make it much easier to keep weight off *after* the diet as well as *during* dieting.

To be honest, I think people would be better off skipping diets and eating healthy food, trying to cultivate what good and healthy habits they can, and putting unscrupulous businesses like Weight Watchers and Jenny Craig out of business. Fad diets, liquid diets, magic diets of the celebrities and fashion magazines--these never work, in the short term or long term. They start with incorrect assumptions, little to no science, and only look for drops in weight--not really what's going inside the body and the mind of the person dieting. Starving oneself to death will be literally true. Diets will never fix bad habits or bad health.

[paigetheoracle]

I personally put all this down to the pendulum effect. Yo-yo dieting, the proliferation of exercise regimes as someone recently put it in a letter to the Daily Mail, which seems to have accompanied the problem with people being overweight, prohibition and bootlegging, the formation of a police organization that wants to legalize drugs to overcome the problem, homeostasis, displacement and the well known effect that if you forbid something that makes it naughty and also proliferate as a problem, where liberal attitudes like in Holland leads to it becoming boring old hat that nobody is worried about anymore - all of these are in my opinion related (How anything works is how everything works)phenomena, pointing to a common ground and therefore a common solution if people believe in it and implement it as policy: Exceptions please put hereafter but psychologically it holds good and seems to biologically too unless I'm much mistaken.