Obesity: Why are we getting fat? :epizza:

[Nitack]

Originally Posted by modest

I agree completely. I wonder if there might be sociological reasons for obesity. Have you considered why people living in urban Japan are some much less likely to be obese than people living in urban America.

On paper both are as sedentary and have the same "readily available" access to food. Obesity being a public problem (it costs medicare all kinds of money), I think it would be good to know the social causes so we can do something about it in an intelligent way.

For example, you wouldn't fix crime by saying people are stupid and violent as you wouldn't fix obesity by saying people are glutinous and lazy. Identifying sociological (and biological) reasons for crime is useful as it should be with obesity.

~modest

The Japanese as a culture also have a drastically different diet than your typical American diet. They may have access to readily available calories, but do not necessary chose to eat in the same manner. They eat a lot more fish, a lot more seaweed, and drink quite a lot more green tea (which numerous studies have linked to lower body weight. Additionally, exercise is a mandatory part of many Japanese office environments. I think a comparative examination of the two cultures (American and Japanese) side by side would reveal something we already know. They move more and eat fewer Calories. We move less and eat more Calories.

[interval]

Obesity is not always a personal option. Researchers have discovered three new genetic variations that increase the risk of obesity, giving new insight into the reasons why some people become fat and others don't.

They suggest that if each acted independently, these variants could be responsible for up to 50 percent of cases of severe obesity.

According to researchers, the new findings should ultimately provide the tools to predict which young children are at risk of becoming obese.

Obesity in adults and children; Why some people become fat and others don't

[Racoon]

Originally Posted by interval

Obesity is not always a personal option. Researchers have discovered three new genetic variations that increase the risk of obesity, giving new insight into the reasons why some people become fat and others don't.

They suggest that if each acted independently, these variants could be responsible for up to 50 percent of cases of severe obesity.

According to researchers, the new findings should ultimately provide the tools to predict which young children are at risk of becoming obese.

Obesity in adults and children; Why some people become fat and others don't

How convenient.

Those genetic "variations" occured when??
Before X-Box and Doritos and Soda Pop?

The risk for young children becoming Obese is easy to see. They don't go outside and run around, ride bikes, and play anymore..

Give the Genetics a rest already.
Its not anyones fault, Its a Blameless society where nobody takes action/responsibility for their self or children anymore..

I don't see kids in Africa having an Obesity problem.

[interval]

Originally Posted by Racoon

How convenient.

Those genetic "variations" occured when??
Before X-Box and Doritos and Soda Pop?

The risk for young children becoming Obese is easy to see. They don't go outside and run around, ride bikes, and play anymore..

Give the Genetics a rest already.
Its not anyones fault, Its a Blameless society where nobody takes action/responsibility for their self or children anymore..

I don't see kids in Africa having an Obesity problem.

You are right, Racoon. And I am right too. Genetic only puts people at obesity risk. Lifestyle does the rest. If one prone to obesity has a balanced diet and is engaged in physical activity, he will have a normal weight.

[Nitack]

Originally Posted by interval

Obesity is not always a personal option. Researchers have discovered three new genetic variations that increase the risk of obesity, giving new insight into the reasons why some people become fat and others don't.

They suggest that if each acted independently, these variants could be responsible for up to 50 percent of cases of severe obesity.

According to researchers, the new findings should ultimately provide the tools to predict which young children are at risk of becoming obese.

Obesity in adults and children; Why some people become fat and others don't

This is rubbish. The fact of the matter is that if you are gaining fat, you took in more Calories than your body needed in a given amount of time to perform all of it's functions. Genetics can change how much energy your body requires through out the day, but it can't make you gain weight if you are not taking in more Calories than you need. It is impossible.

Originally Posted by Racoon

How convenient.

Those genetic "variations" occured when??
Before X-Box and Doritos and Soda Pop?

The risk for young children becoming Obese is easy to see. They don't go outside and run around, ride bikes, and play anymore..

Give the Genetics a rest already.
Its not anyones fault, Its a Blameless society where nobody takes action/responsibility for their self or children anymore..

I don't see kids in Africa having an Obesity problem.

Thank you for calling bullshit Racoon. Everyone is desperate to find an excuse for their being fat other than their own actions. Blame genetics, disease, specific foods, etc, and people feel better about themselves because they are not responsible for their own misery.

Check out this report... Metabolism alone doesn't explain how thin people stay thin

Findings from the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center in Denver has found that thin people don't stay thin because of some genetic component, but rather because they eat less. They also found that people who gain weight do not actually realize how much they are eating (overeating).

[pamela]

every one is desperate to find an excuse?? how do you know that?
there are reasons not just excuses.....
how about this for an example-
My son is on anticonvulsants. He has switched them often as some worked and some just brought on horrible side effects .With each subsequent new med, he would put on several pounds within a 4 week period. I closely monitor his diet, prepare his own lunch for school, so as to avoid garbage. He gets some exercise, less than most twelve year olds. He cannot overexert himself, as a rapid increase in body temperature will trigger a seizure. He has a positive self image despite the weight and has learned to ignore the fat comments. We will continue to work on burning calories by means of walking and hiking, and as he continues to grow he should somewhat slim down. This is not an excuse but a reason for his borderline obesity.

[Nitack]

Originally Posted by pamela

every one is desperate to find an excuse?? how do you know that?
there are reasons not just excuses.....
how about this for an example-
My son is on anticonvulsants. He has switched them often as some worked and some just brought on horrible side effects .With each subsequent new med, he would put on several pounds within a 4 week period. I closely monitor his diet, prepare his own lunch for school, so as to avoid garbage. He gets some exercise, less than most twelve year olds. He cannot overexert himself, as a rapid increase in body temperature will trigger a seizure. He has a positive self image despite the weight and has learned to ignore the fat comments. We will continue to work on burning calories by means of walking and hiking, and as he continues to grow he should somewhat slim down. This is not an excuse but a reason for his borderline obesity.

From what you said the reason for his borderline obesity is that he eats more calories than he burns. The reason why his body may require less Calories daily than another 12 year old might be related to his medication. No medication or condition can MAKE you gain weight. You have to take in more Calories than your body is using on a consistent basis to gain weight, the energy that the fat is storing can not just appear. Not trying to be insensitive here, just factually accurate.

[pamela]

do you not think it odd, that each time the meds change, there is a rapid increase in weight? I will research the correlation between the two, but I was warned by the doctor that it would happen.I am not saying the meds made him gain weight, but something ocurred metabolically or otherwise to have caused this effect. I am very careful about his diet, not in so much as the weight itself, but fat accumulation around his heart and blood pressure. Last monday in triage, his pressure was so high, it was frightening. You can't imagine how difficult this situation is. What would you have me do? drop his caloric intake to 1000 calories a day and deprive him of essential nutrients? I cannot. We can only hike a little more often as weather permits. I am confident that this is short term and gradually he will be able to exert more physical energy. As I stated in an earlier post, we have to look at the individual's needs. It is not so clearly black and white, there are some grey areas. I am in agreement with burning more than taking in, is what works. But for us, it has to be a gradual process

[modest]

Originally Posted by Nitack

No medication or condition can MAKE you gain weight. You have to take in more Calories than your body is using on a consistent basis to gain weight, the energy that the fat is storing can not just appear. Not trying to be insensitive here, just factually accurate.

Nitack, you seem incapable of thinking two levels deep on this issue.

If person A were to fatally shoot person B with a gun, then it's well-understood that person A killed person B. You are fixated on the bullet—saying that the cause of death is the bullet. You cannot seem to consider the gun that fired the bullet nor the hand that pulled the trigger, nor the person, nor the motives. You're just fixated on the physical cause of death—bullet through torso.

It is completely consistent for a bullet to cause death and for a person to cause death. These things are not mutually exclusive. You have no grounds or reason to object to other people who are examining this issue with greater depth than you are.

The listed side effect of almost all antidepressants is weight gain. Double-blind drug trials examining side effects show marked increase in body mass over placebo

Many antidepressants in all categories are associated with weight gain usually in the range of 5-25 kg (10-50 pounds) but not uncommonly upwards of 50 kg (100 pounds). The specific cause is unknown, but it is known that antidepressants are associated with increased cravings, an inability to feel full despite ingestion of adequate calories, low energy levels and increased daytime sleepiness which can lead to overeating and a lack of desire to exercise, and dry mouth which can lead to ingestion of calorie-laden beverages. In addition, the antihistaminic properties of certain TCAs, and NaSSa's have been shown to contribute at least in part to the common side effects of increased appetite and weight gain associated with these classes of medication. Eating low fat, low protein carbohydrate snacks and carbohydrate-rich dinners allows the brain to make serotonin which then controls appetite and balances mood. Carbohydrates thus eaten, as part of a balanced diet, by virtue of their effect on brain serotonin levels, thus support weight loss in the setting of antidepressant weight gain.

Antidepressant - Weight Gain

In a double-blind drug trial there is only one variable—the medication. It is then not only appropriate, it is PERTINENT to say "antidepressants cause weight gain". Do you see how this is consistent with the idea of conservation of energy (e.g. calories in / energy out)? Can you think 2 levels deep like this?

~modest

[Nitack]

Originally Posted by modest

Nitack, you seem incapable of thinking two levels deep on this issue.

If person A were to fatally shoot person B with a gun, then it's well-understood that person A killed person B. You are fixated on the bullet—saying that the cause of death is the bullet. You cannot seem to consider the gun that fired the bullet nor the hand that pulled the trigger, nor the person, nor the motives. You're just fixated on the physical cause of death—bullet through torso.

It is completely consistent for a bullet to cause death and for a person to cause death. These things are not mutually exclusive. You have no grounds or reason to object to other people who are examining this issue with greater depth than you are.

The listed side effect of almost all antidepressants is weight gain. Double-blind drug trials examining side effects show marked increase in body mass over placebo

In a double-blind drug trial there is only one variable—the medication. It is then not only appropriate, it is PERTINENT to say "antidepressants cause weight gain". Do you see how this is consistent with the idea of conservation of energy (e.g. calories in / energy out)? Can you think 2 levels deep like this?

~modest

I am fixated on what is actually happening. Understanding that weight gain can only come from an excess of Calories lets one really start controlling the variables, Calorie input and Calorie expenditure. Saying "this medication will cause me to gain weight" cedes power in the situation to your medication. Saying "this medication will slow my metabolism" keeps the power in your hands, because the next sentence is "so I need to adjust A, B, and C."

I am looking at it from a different angle than you. Using your analogy. You are all fixated on person A, while I am fixated in taking the gun out of his hands.