Obesity: Why are we getting fat? :epizza:

[Nitack]

Originally Posted by Kayra

Nitack, you consistently argue your point based on your personal experiences, and those experiences appear (IMHO) to be blinding you to any other perspective. Your natural predisposition to be large, and your powerful personal drive to overcome this genetic predisposition appears to have given you the perspective that all the entire society needs to do is follow your example to resolve the issue. While your solution is laudable, and even encouraged, it is pretty improbably that the majority of overweight people would be likely to try, and even if they did, unlikely to maintain that lifestyle. furthermore, it is pointed to as a sollution when the puropose of the thread is to determine the problem.

Your statement seems to confuse the truth of my reasoning and solution with the inability of a large portion of the population to discipline themselves. The question asked is "Why are we getting fat". Certain conditions, medications, and genetics can predisposition us to gaining weight because they change our metabolism in some way, but that does not invalidate the explanation at all that those individuals are not moving enough and are eating too much.

Originally Posted by Kayra

The insistence that a simple (and accurate) formula bears the answer is again IMO grossly simplifying a very complex situation. It treats the body as a simple mechanism instead of a vastly complex soup of genetically driven parts. All the formula can do is point us in a very general direction as to what is causing the problem. If it is just an increase in calories, or a reduction in physical activity, either could likely be resolved by educating the public and embarking on long term campaigns to correct the issues. This would in effect be an engineered social change, and we have done them before.

I think my argument has been misunderstood. I have never said that losing weight or solving the obesity epidemic is simple. What I said is that it is ultimately a matter of Calories in vs. Calories out and that the equation is simple. The various factors that affect each side of the equation are very complicated. My whole point, hopelessly lost in all this, is that once you start to understand how different things effect different sides of the equation that you can attempt to manipulate the equation in beneficial ways to compensate.

As to the bolded statement. I still believe it is just an increase in calories and a reduction in physical activity. Could educating the public resolve the situation... not likely. This does not indicate a fault in the premise or the logic behind it though. History is riddled with examples of individuals who are educated but still make stupid choices. We even have an axiom for it: Those who do not learn from the past are condemned to repeat it. The inability of the masses to put their education to use does not indicate a fault in the education they have received or the subject of that education.

[Nitack]

Originally Posted by modest

Nitack,

Go back and read Interval’s post. He points out an extensive research project done in the genetics of obesity. The results were just release days ago, and he posts it in this thread making a positive contribution. After Racoon completely mischaracterizes his post, Interval says this:



Which you call rubbish and bullshit, further commenting "Everyone is desperate to find an excuse for their being fat other than their own actions. Blame genetics, disease, specific foods, etc, and people feel better about themselves because they are not responsible for their own misery."

This was Interval's 11th post... If anyone needs an apology.

~modest

Read the entirety of my posting rather than cherry picking one line. If anything, my arguments are in step with Interval's. Genetics can alter one side of the equation but lifestyle is the true cause.

You still owe me an apology, I am no troll.

[Kayra]

Nitack, I believe I understood your position, and if not please clarify where I went wrong. I often get confused when there are this many posts to catch up on.

I believe your argument is akin to saying there is war in the middle east because there are two opposing sides unwilling to give ground, and as long as there are two opposing sides there will be war.

While accurate, the statement is far to general to be helpful in understanding the cause/effect of a complex situation.

You have in effect stated quite clearly and repeatedly (unless I am misreading things) that solving the obesity epidemic is simple. It is only that part of your perspective that I was at odds with. It would appear I was misreading your intent. I had made the assumption that your own life experiences and issues, and the solutions you had come up with were being put forward as a suggestion for solving a problem that we were still trying to specifically identify. If they were not, then I fail to understand their relevance to the topic. Sorry for the confusion.

Personally I think we have a wonderful tool to help us in identifying the source of the problem. We have to look in depth at the differences in societies becoming obese to ones that are not. Look for commonalities in those that are, and use ones that are not to eliminate commonalities (such as diet or social aspects) from the areas to be investigated.

If nothing else, this should reduce the areas that need to be looked into to a reasonable number.

[Nitack]

Originally Posted by Kayra

Personally I think we have a wonderful tool to help us in identifying the source of the problem. We have to look in depth at the differences in societies becoming obese to ones that are not. Look for commonalities in those that are, and use ones that are not to eliminate commonalities (such as diet or social aspects) from the areas to be investigated.

If nothing else, this should reduce the areas that need to be looked into to a reasonable number.

My understanding is that Obesity is spreading world wide to every area with the exception of sub-Saharan Africa. Everywhere else you can find obesity rates rising and consequently, the amount of Calories available per capita has also risen much more dramatically in those regions.


USDA: frsept99b

[Kayra]

Thanks for clarifying Nitack.

So you are putting forward that the sole (or main ) cause of obesity is simply an increase in caloric intake?

[Nitack]

Originally Posted by Kayra

Thanks for clarifying Nitack.

So you are putting forward that the sole (or main ) cause of obesity is simply an increase in caloric intake?

Main, yes. As you agreed with me earlier, if this were an issue of genetics it would not have manifested itself so prolifically in the last few decades. In addition, over 50% of the US population is considered obese or overweight according to the CDC. Can we really say that over half of the US population has some genetic/hormonal/disease/condition that is "causing" this?

The sudden rise of obesity in my eyes points to a cause of nurture and not nature. If this was a question of nature, we would have seen this manifest a lot sooner. My premise that if it is a question of nurture, well we can change learned behavior and habits in order to reverse the situation, but the question is are the masses willing to give up their instant gratification lifestyle in favor of a more healthy lifestyle.

[Kayra]

Originally Posted by Nitack

Your statement seems to confuse the truth of my reasoning and solution with the inability of a large portion of the population to discipline themselves. The question asked is "Why are we getting fat". Certain conditions, medications, and genetics can predisposition us to gaining weight because they change our metabolism in some way, but that does not invalidate the explanation at all that those individuals are not moving enough and are eating too much.

Simple and truthful observation. It really does answer the question the thread posed, but again not in a useful or actionable way.

I think we are trying to grasp the "Why" of the reduced activity or increased caloric intake. With that understanding a meaningful solution can be formulated. Some answers seem obvious, some not. I would bet the true answers would surprise us all (That was not a really helpful statement either )

[Nitack]

My Solution: The Walking Desk


I bought a used treadmill off of Craigslist, custom built a desk that would be at the perfect height to use while walking on the treadmill, and now have turned normally sedentary work, surfing the web, and playing computer games into physically active activities.

Inspired by this article at Men's Health
Diet Strategies: Increase Metabolism - Men's Health

If you like the idea, curious about the actual use, or want to build your own and need some pointers don't hesitate to ask.

[Kayra]

I would suspect that is more of a personal then global solution.

[Nitack]

Originally Posted by Kayra

I would suspect that is more of a personal then global solution.

You said that there are sociological reasons that need to be considered. One sociological reason is absolutely our way of working... sitting behind a desk. Outfit every desk this way and we have a change to one of the core issues in our society that leads to obesity. If the standard working station was a standing/walking station, how many more Calories would the average person use in a day? Maybe not enough to offset increased food consumption, but definately enough to slow down the weight gain and possibly even turn it around.