New music is meaningless

[Pyrotex]

Originally Posted by lemit

So, Pyrotex, are you my long-lost twin?... I led a somewhat strange life in the sixties, so "paranoia strikes deep" didn't strike a note--so to speak--with me. ...But as soon as I read the first line of the lyrics ...emotional trigger is amazing. ...

Me have a twin?
Well, you must be the evil one, because I am just so totally, you know, like, righteous.
My life in the sixties was also strange a la Twilight Zone. I was always on the "outside" of everything, looking in, observing from a distance, like being invisible. The only things that kept me alive were music, math, physics, science fiction, and Playboy magazine centerfolds.

[Moontanman]

I have very little interest in much of what is termed "new" music. many of the young singers are really dull and as the OP said sex and angst has been done to death. I used to honestly be able to say there were no up and coming Led Zeps or Santana's. the new stuff on the radio is just plain, plain, no real heart or soul. then my son turned me on to some stuff his schools mates were doing and to some new bands making the rounds of colleges. I think they have lots of potential, not really new sounds, but a real heart and soul take on Rock and roll. I look forward to hearing this in more wide spread venues. since I am 54 and I shamefully find myself in the same situation my parents were when i was listening to the "new" music of my time, they didn't think anything would come of it, maybe it didn't, but I do find my self saying the same about what I hear on the radio but as i said maybe the cycle is about to repeat and the really new "new" music will be different, maybe even as good as my old "new' music.

[vanamoinen1]

Moontanman: don't give up hope. Myself, I can do without another Santana, but Zeppelin, no--I won't give up hope for a new incarnation--and Floyd will never die. In the meantime, Dave Matthews Band RULES! Sigur Ros--out of iceland--actually is an interesting ensemble--huge band with each member doing one specific thing throughout an individual song yielding very dense, paradoxically complex music. For sheer scale of variety, (even if somewhat drearyily) Radiohead has proven its lasting power and they put on an amazing show--witness, too, the covers of their music ranging from string quartets--in classical and bluegrass style--as well as Christopher O'Riley's piano transcriptions. Normally, I'd not listen to them, but My Chemical Romance puts on a surprisingly good set and their album "Welcome to the Black Parade" is the first concept album I've liked in ages. Vienna Teng and Dengue Fever (both picks I learned about from NPR) are refreshingly different--Teng is amazing. On the popular side, Life House maintains a positive attitude, has well-constructed songs and has received goodly amounts of airtime (well-deserved in my opinion) as has the band Live (although they suck when actually seen live). As with Live, Our Lady Peace puts out a bit of message-music and tunefully at that. And so on. There's lots of music going on. It's just a bit more complicated these days figuring out which bands are to your own taste. Thankfully, Borders went over to electronic listening so that you can preview (prelisten?) your purchases.

Now, please tell me when I can venture into a mall or Starbucks and NOT have to hear the same old blaring Frank Sinatra or put-me-to-sleep Dean Martin. And that horrible "Baby it's cold outside" or whatever, needs to DIE.

[lawcat]

Plato figured this out 2500 years ago -- music distribution and enjoyment chain is a matter of inspiration.

[modest]

Originally Posted by Boof-head

I think Eminem's someone who has recognised the hypocisy of the entertainment industry

I'm sure there's a good point in there...

I'd guess Eminem is very smart and understands the music industry very, very well. Controversy sells (always has) and any musician who can successfully capitalize on that is doing something that not many can. He certainly knows what he's doing. Spelling it out in his lyrics he makes no apologies,

Though I'm not the first king of controversy
I am the worst thing since Elvis Presley
to do Black Music so selfishly
and use it to get myself wealthy

~modest

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by vanamoinen1

Listening to music in one's car or home is one thing. Hearing it jam in a club is another, and the bottom line of Eminem is that when his songs (or more likely, club remixes of his songs) crank in a club (a club most likely populated by 20 and 30 somethings, many of which are single and cruising), people dance (and I hate to be the bearer of dismal news, but Britney is danceable). In this context, the quality and content of the lyrics-writing become largely irrelevant--the Dre factor shoots up in significance. I'm sorry, but you just can't dance to Cage--or Rorem, or Ives for that matter. I don't mean to devalue their work, but rather to point out that there is at least one environment which is suitable to a type of music and that other environments are unsuitable therefor.

Indeed. I'm going to crawl out on a limb here and guess that most of the older folks posting in this thread have never been to a modern dance club in a big city.

Taking that over to music--the commercial success of Eminem (and of the rap industry as a whole) indicates that he/they fill(s) some market's need for him/them or the flipside, there is a demand for this type of music and he/they service that demand. Whether there's lasting power in this music remains to be seen.

Indeed. I would never buy a Brittany Spears album, but millions of others feel otherwise. That the music is trite to me does not mean that it should be trite for others.

I think it really comes down to music appreciation. For myself, I experience music differently depending on many factors including (but not limited to): my mood, the tone or atmosphere of the piece, my environment, my appreciation for the piece, etc.

One person may hear Bach and envision the beauties of Heaven, while another person may say that it says nothing. But to interpret that person's opinion as meaning that they can never truly appreciate music the way you do (regarding Bach) is illogical.

When I was younger, I struggled with this. It always irked me when a song I loved (and felt emotionally connected to) became a radio hit. It upset me because I envisioned hordes of mindless drones listening to "my cherished music" in a very casual manner. For example, "Black" by Pearl Jam was a little nugget of gold on their album "Ten". While most of my peers were obssesed with "Even Flow" and "Jeremy", I would sit in my room with the lights off and listen to "Black". It is such an emotional song! (for me anyways) Then, I heard it on the radio one day. Next thing I knew, it was being played everywhere. It seemed to disgrace the feeling behind the song to hear it in a boisterous restaurant.

Fortunately, over time, I've learned to let go of this mentality. In doing so, I've inadvertently opened my mind to all kinds of new music. Pyrotex mentioned CSNY earlier. I love CSNY and I feel obligated to present a new incarnation of CSNY. If you are a fan of CSNY and do not find the following song enjoyable, I'd very much like to know why.

YouTube - Fleet Foxes

[CraigD]

Originally Posted by Boof-head

I think Cohen is terminally depressed, perhaps.

Originally Posted by vanamoinen1

Boof-Head--anecdotally, I think Mr. Cohen was actually late to the game.

Being a fan of Leonard Cohen since before I knew who he – or nearly anyone – was, ca. 1967 (I was born in 1960), when “Suzanne” was popular, and going to see him live for the first time in a month or so, I can’t let this outrageous bashing stand!

Leonard Cohen is NOT a rapper! He’s got a gravely voice, for sure, moreso lately, as he’s going on 75 years old, but his songs have never been chants (the best old term I can think of for a melodic and rhythmic form like rap, though “poetic-footed chant” or “syncopated chant” might be more accurate), but fairly conventional melodies, even the ones that stay on the same note for many beats (eg: “The Future”: “Gimme back my broken knight, my mirrored room, my secret life. It's (up +1 step) lonely here; there's no one (+1) left (-1) to (+1)tor(-1)ture” –well, OK, the verse is rather chant-like, but the refrain’s, “When they said ‘repent, repent’, I wonder what they meant” isn’t)

As for Cohen being “terminally depressed”, all I can say is listen deeply to his songs, man! Starting maybe with “Hallelujah”: “It goes like this, the fourth, the fifth, the minor fall, the major lift, the baffled king composing ‘hallelujia’”. Cohen’s very mystical, always singing about souls and such, but if you hear past the surface of the lyrics, you’ll find an unbridledly ecstatic, in most cases, or in some, angry (eg: the anti-war “Story of Isaac”: “you who build these altars now / to sacrifice these children, / you must not do it anymore. A scheme is not a vision / and you never have been tempted / by a demon or a god.”) core. Simply great stuff, IMHO – it make the hairs of my neck stand up, one of my main test of lyrics.

Originally Posted by Boof-head

Do you play music, can you belt out any 'oldies' like the Stones, Santana or say, Steely Dan?

Yes, I play music, “things with frets and strings” mostly, and sing. Haven’t been in a band for a couple of years now, but enjoy an occasion jam, mostly with my youngest son, who at 25 is very in several bands. Belt out, with some degree of competency, a lot of oldies, including real oldies like the traditional bluegrass, Ralph Stanley’s bands’ and The Country Gentlemen, rockier stuff like the Stones, Tull, and Floyd, Beatles, lots of Dead, CSN[Y], a lot of just Neil Young, and a lot of newer stuff, especially cloyingly popy stuff (if it’s been on an iPod commercial, I’ve likely subjected someone to a rendition of it). Only do a handful of Steely Dan – like it, but just not that familiar with it – and hardly any Santana, as it’s a bit technically virtuoso-y for me (though, oddly, I’ve no compunction about mangling Hendrix and other virtuoso-y pieces). As much original stuff or my own, my wife’s, and friends, as I can.

I could go on with a couple of decades of set list dump, but if you are or know a musician, you likely have a feel for what I’m like.

Alongside with computer programming, music’s been a major influence in my life, generating a string of tales I won’t trot out here and now, except to note that my current wife first seriously caught my eye when I dropped into a bar where she was playing and singing – I hardly remember the songs, now, other than that one was a highly countrified version of the Stones “Wild Horses” – with what struck me as the timing and voice of an absolute angel.

As far as rap goes, I’ve nothing against it, other than that I’m really bad at it. However you trace its history, I think you’ve got to acknowledge its influence on a wide range of music. For example, consider the question: though surely far from old school, are the Chili Peppers a rap band, or Bob Schneider (who I’d really love to be able to rap like!) a rap singer? A lot of creative people have put a lot into the tradition, so IMHO, it’s simply wrong to label the whole genre, style, and tradition “meaningless”.

[Boof-head]

Well , initially I stated that modern music appears to have a movement towards meaningless intent (however meaningful that statement might be). I think it probably goes through phases, and finds a 'comfort level' that reflects say, modern ideas.

Where do you get with an idea which is so done to death (GM and the furious ones disbanded decades ago) that you explore "meaninglessness" with it, and release all those tunes that you could either play in sequence or all at once and not notice anything?

Perhaps Slim is onto something - the real Mr Shady does not exist and "he can't stand up". We may/may not have a problem here...

[Theory5]

Greetings. Speaking as one of the 'youngsters' of this generation I feel compelled to say something. I have some pretty different musical preferences for kids my age. I prefer 'punk' music for its rebellious spirit and different views. Two of my favorite bands are NOFX and Anti-flag. Anti-flag is a political punk band, all of their songs reflect happenings during the time of the album release. Their newest album is disliked by many fans because it has a completely different style from their older albums. NOFX is pronounced "no effects" and they have some pretty....interesting songs in their albums. Their only album I listen to is "The Greatest Songs Ever Written" and the songs "USA holes" and "Wolves In Wolves Clothing" which are in a different album. In The Greatest Songs Every Written one of their songs talks about what happened to the music industry.
I really hate other kinds of music like rap and hip hop. To me those seem to encourage certain behaviors like violence and consumerism. And they seem to discourage critical thinking and stuff along that path. Atleast that is the impression I get from the kids I know who listen to stuff like rap and hip hop.

EDIT: I forgot to post some links to NOFX and Anti-flag songs on youtube here they are:
One of NOFX's lighter songs

Franco-UnAmerican

Anti-flag's 911 for peace

911 For Peace

NOFX's separation of church and skate (not a typo) Its about why the punk gene when downhill

The Separation of Church and Skate

Anti-flag's Bring Out Your Dead this was sung for the album Mobilize and was released in the early 2000's I think.

Bring Out Your Dead!

Anti-flags tearing down the borders which relates to the Anarchist idea that there should be no borders or nations, and by doing this everyone wont be able to find reasons to fight and hate others.

Tearing Down The Borders

Hoped you like these songs, the last one is a bit scratchy so you might want to look for another Tearing Down The Borders video. For Anti-flag these are all songs from their erlier days. Their newest album is called The Bright Lights Of America, and the one before that (which is awsome by the way, if you like it buy it there are essays relating to every song in that album) called For Blood And Empire.
Enjoy

[Southtown]

I think the fault lies with the invisible consumption mechanism. The plants grow where the water is.