Bullying. Any ideas on how to stop it?

[LaurieAG]

Hi Pamela, all,

Whats behind the ogre?

The usual suspect is unequal application of the rules, bullies do what they do because they know they will not be punished, especially if they bully any witnesses. If the responsible authorities themselves are also bullies then you have a real problem.

The main thing with bullies in government administration is that they will punish any 'whistleblowers' who leak embarassing documents to the press. They do not want their conscious incompetence to becomes public knowledge so they try to put a spin on everything to prortray themselves in a positive light (as the victims) and their accusers as the real problem, to be dealt with accordingly.

When Freedom of Information laws become Freedom from Information laws the bully bells should be ringing loudly.

BTW, my local area (50 km radius) has probably had more gratuitous violence and vandalism clips (posted by schoolchildren) removed from utube than any other comparable area on this planet. While individuals have recently been charged with assisting crimes (bashings etc) by filming them (and then posting the clips) does banning camera phones from schools fix the bullying problem or does it merely hide the problem?

Covering up problems rather than fixing them is what's behind the ogre.

[paigetheoracle]

Hi everybody! I'm late to the game but I hope my comments prove interesting. Firstly I don't think it is the sport per se that is the problem but that such activities don't develop the little grey cells between the ears (Art and science do because they require detailed concentration, whether it's music or something else). Sport and any crude, laboring activity build up muscles not brain cells.

Of course bullies use threats and intimidation because violence is dangerous to all parties, potentially, so if you can get what you want without it, why not? On top of this violence is weakness and if you can provoke someone else to hit you, they not you look bad in others eyes (Even criminals want to justify their actions, to appear the good guy).

Talking of whistleblowers - the nurse who exposed the lack of care for patients in a hospital ward for geriatrics, in a Panorama TV show, was sacked by her profession but the bastards who mistreated the old people were not, proving the point raised is true about cover ups through embarrassment by the authorities.

Lastly on this subject and talking of animals. We have a new dog that keeps attacking our old dog. It's a fear reaction but we know that if we stick to it that this will change over time as did our appreciation of the second dog we got last year, that preceded the Collie. I was all for giving it to the nearest dogs home, if I didn't strangle the little so-and-so first! Now he's obedient and calmer as the Collie is becoming too. There are times when we want to throw her out but we know that in her present condition (damaged goods) she wouldn't get re-homed easily if at all. Like a lot of these twisted bullies, you need to stop their bad behaviour there and then (if for nothing else in our case but to keep the vet bills down for stitching). We need to understand the behaviour not condone it (see reasons, not accept excuses - with the dog it goes ballistic when it feels confined because that was its early life - in a 10-15 foot outside run for at least 4-5 years, with no let out for exploring the rest of the world). The frightened, frighten - stress can turn anyone psychotic as this is the basis of brainwashing.

[arkain101]

One thing that enters my mind in response to the title alone is the following;

Bullying basically comes down to ego related things. In the person doing the bullying there is a sense of pride, but of course it is a false sense of pride. But I am not going to attempt to try and explain the causes at this point.

What I notice in life is that any social confrontations and conflicts that occur, can be broken down to a few very basic rules. Confidence and Fear. Which really means, False confidence, and the fear connected with that.

I've consistently witnessed throughout my life that any group of people both subjected to events where their false confidence is realized and fear and caution takes their place, they become dependent on eachother. All the bully games subside, and the goal ahead of them becomes the top priority. This unavoidable teamwork effort forms understanding and bonds. It teaches people that in where they thought they saw weakness there was strength, and where they thought they saw strength the learned its weakness.

For example.

Racial issues settled between individuals in boot camp and warfare.

A bully subjected to a new and unfamiliar environment like a summer job surrounded by accomplished able people. His power is removed, his weakness exposes and he seeks for support in anyone.

I think solving bullying in schools would be directly related to these basics. If we could change the environment where false confidence was unable to succeed students would be able to learn new methods to gain sense of confidence and control.

Some of the specific issues could relate to school hours being too long. It becomes negatively central to their lives. In the sense they have to find something to do with their time, recess, lunch hours. The focus of what school is actually for fails severely! A lot of kids don't even know what they are doing there, so they invent their own main focus. Some kids turn school into their own little ego empire, where they can be powerful and in control.

Not enough real world challenges put in place where each persons true strengths can be exposed and utilized, and in that process itself they learn naturally what false strength and confidence really is.

[arkain101]

Sport and any crude, laboring activity build up muscles not brain cells.

I suppose it depends on what specifically you mean by crude, but I could not disagree with this more in relation to labor.

I know we can learn more from certain forms of hands on experience than any book will ever teach a person(I am not responding to you directly paige). When we push ourselves through rough conditions, doing the down and dirt parts of life we get a real and lasting feel for some of the true difficulties of life.

As a person goes through the process of removing the whining and complaints of their body and mind through laboring work not just a 'work out' but, -wet, dirty, dusty, slimy, early morning, late evening- kind of work, they can quickly learn to see what does and does not help them succeed on a daily basis.

Take farm work for example. As long as the person is part of a honest team of people going out and doing a hard days work in various conditions, it can be very important for developing an attitude of humility, respect, and honor for the people around you. Example: Take a king or queen of the world attitude (bullying) and go shovel some cow crap with crap flies around you... lol ya know? Even kings and queens can shovel poop. All of our false ideals of ourselves will try every trick they can to avoid having to do some of these kinds of things at first so we can continue holding onto them and remain in this idealistic world we've created of ourselves, but those ideals won't last in that kind of environment. New ideals emerge, from understanding produced through hands on experience and accomplishment, giving one a lasting sense of confidence, as opposed to lack of understanding and no hands on experience with very little under your belt expect the ideals we've created to give you some sense of confidence.

Of course this is only one example. The same can be said for hitting the books. It doesnt really matter what the activity is, as long as we are challenging ourselves and pushing our limits and comfort zones we can grow and develop. We can establish independence and social respect when we work together towards some common goal.

My experiences and knowledge of school were very far from accomplishing those very important life skills, and because of that, so much opportunity is lost.

[arkain101]

I think we complicate the some of the problems of society a lot more than we need to.

If I had to offer a solution in the least amount of words I would say:

(Metaphorically)
Society needs to go out and get dirty and shovel a little more manure together. We just don't shovel Sh*t like we used to.

I think this is one of George W. Bushes wisest statements (Although I don't know the context or exact words, but I believe it was somthing like this):

In response to the his activities after leaving his position as President of the United States: "I've been picking up a little dog manure here and there."

We could all learn from Mr. Bush on that.


It can be said that today our leaders must also become actors, not because this is their character, but it is because of the ideals society has of what is powerful, respectful and true. If a politician wants to be seen as powerful, respectful and true, he must become weaker and false. For no man is a god, but only a man who must do the duties of life.

[maddog]

What to be done breaks down into two groups: what to do on an individual basis, and
what to do as a group or within the infrastructure of the school or community.

As an individual what I did as a potential victim was to use humor, logic followed by a quick foot thereafter. A bully would come to taunt me or something. I would use my gift
of wit and banter back. Best worked with a crowd around. Bullies just HATE being laughed
at. Sometimes this alone was enough. If not, I would pose some hard question that would
make the bully think. By the time he was ready to respond, I was gone, not to be beaten
upon. This worked great in grade school. I never got "beaten to a pulp ...". However,
in High School was increased sophistication. By then even bullies were brighter. All I ever
saw in bullying in HS was bullying of a psychological nature, not physical. In my time/place
in High School it was the groups of "Jocks" and "Freaks" (which was somewhat synonymous with "egghead", etc. I was continually taunted by the Athletic crowd for
having long hair. One day, I lost it and as I walked by my taunter I left hooked him as I
walked by (kept walking). This got me in trouble as this was during class break in the
hall with many witnesses. So like Moontanman, I was then an Alpha Male who would
stand for no more. I took my licks from the principal. Yet within my heart, I did feel a
sense of conviction. Could I have done it more nonviolent. Likely. The difference here
(as my limited thinking in the matter) was that in any nonviolent method, the taunting
would continue, whereas my method the taunter did stop.

Today as an adult, I prefer seeking a peaceful path if possible. At the same time from
Martial Arts training, I am still willing to fight if forced.

Secondly, what can be done as a group ? Get counselors involved in the process, investigate
what is going on with the Bully's family. If gang(s) are involved then involve the community as well.

I am not a parent, so I can only relate on a personal level (what happened to me as a
child) or in a conceptual level (outside of personal experience).

Hope this has added something to this thread.

maddog

[LaurieAG]

One thing that has had success in my state is a group of entertainers who visit primary schools and present bullying in a light that shows the bullies what they are actually doing.

Unfortunately 'success' is relative because 25% of my states grade 4-9 students claim to be bullied at school.

[HydrogenBond]

I was bullied once, when I was in the first grade, by an older boy, who was in the second grade. I was lucky, because a third grader stuck up for me. As it turned out, the boy who helped me was the toughest kid in the school. His gesture of kindness went a long way, in gossip mill of the playground, giving me bully immunity, the rest of my time in that school.

What I learned that day, was if you aren't the fighting type, which I wasn't, be friendly and say hello to the tough kids. When the bullies see you say hello to a tough kid, they are not sure of your association and they leave you alone.

I have a nephew, who is a really bright young man, but he is also rough and tumble and also a jock. Starting in about the second grade, he became a protector for some of his smaller but equally smart friends.

If I was a principle in a school, I would recruit some of the older and girls boys, who have a reputation for being alpha. I would have them keep an eye on the bullies and turn my head when they apply some muscle; just as long as it is righteous. This would give all the potential victims of bullies, their own protector.

[enorbet2]

One minor point -
I think it is mistaken to equate bullies with alpha males. Not one single bully from my High School didn't end up a loser, either in jail or just knuckled under in adult society. The real alpha males were the ones that were sociable and somewhat bright, with some organizational skills and seemingly focused on others, instilling confidence in followers. I don;t think it is possible to stop bullying altogether but it is possible to considerably diminish it by taking away the motivation. That however is a complex order as long as most of us slow down to view a roadside accident - Sax and Violins play a mean tune.

[pamela]

Originally Posted by enorbet

One minor point -
I think it is mistaken to equate bullies with alpha males. Not one single bully from my High School didn't end up a loser, either in jail or just knuckled under in adult society. The real alpha males were the ones that were sociable and somewhat bright, with some organizational skills and seemingly focused on others, instilling confidence in followers.

you may have misunderstood, the alpha male attachments were for both Maddog and Moontanman and not attached to the bully profile. And as we can see, both are superior specimens of intelligence, and sociability