[Merla]

Some questions about this great work of Plato.
How do you believe the composition and rule of the US live up to the concept of political leadership implied in this allegory?
Plato writes that the "intellectual is doomed always to be at odds with popular belief and thinking". If so, why? If not. why not?
And lastly, in his description of the returnee to the cave whose eyes are made dim and weak by the unaccustomed shadows, what popular stereotype of the thinker does Plato depict? What's your view of this stereotype?

Just some questions regarding this text.

For me, I would stay in the cave. I don't want to know about rape and murder and hate. I want to be naive and think that people are good and love each other. I want to believe that peace on earth is possible. I want to not have to question other people's intentions. Yes, I would get taken advantage of, but I wouldn't know the difference, If something bad enough happened, I'd just suppress the memory.

[Turtle]

Sounds like you have an assignment Merla. English 103? In topology sometimes, in is out; visit my cave tour at thread "Katabatak..."

[Merla]

Well, it's not an assignment but some questions that just popped up.. I could ask a thousand more such as what this allegory imply about the nature of the truth, if you - and if yes, why - would leave the cave etc..

But thanks for your reply

Ps. That is one advanced thread you started...

[Turtle]

___Thanks Merla & welcome to the forum. A lot of other folks here have similar questioning to yours, myself included. I actually did have to write that essay once, & the teacher gave it back & said I had no idea what it was about. He gave the essay back & said I either had to rewrite it or take an F. In the mean time we discussed it in class & I reread & reread it (plato's Allegory I mean) & the wrote a new paper & received an A.
___I would love to chat with Plato & tell him where I agree 7 challenge him where I do not.

[Merla]

hehe.

Just a quickie.. "the intellectual is doomed always to be at odds with popular belief and thinking." What does this really mean? That someone intellectual is always supposed to be err thinking or something?

And who is "the common man"? The ones in the cave who represented all people before they were fully educated. Or?

[Buffy]

Intellectual Nirvana is a world in which Plato is wrong.

I've always interpreted this one as simply the notion that intellectuals are the first to question the generally accepted body of knowledge: the things that all the "common men" know. Those things over time are either accepted by the majority or are disproven (although they may simply be stiffled for political or religious reasons for some period of time if they are not disproven).

Cheers,
Buffy

[Merla]

Thank you, Buffy

Do you agree with his view about the nature of truth?

Also, Plato writes that if that an observer should "laught at the soul which comes from below into the light, there will be more reason in this than the laugh which greets him who returns from above out of the light into the den."
What's the difference between the two laughters?

[mother engine]

as far as the common man/working class not being intellectual this may seem to be true but from my experience is not at all. so many minds in this cave though, i doubt the majority can afford itself the luxury of questioning everything. the machinery depends on some level of compliance and also (i believe) some level of ignorance in order to properly function.

[Merla]

So Plato is basically saying that the common man is not educated/intelligent? - That I have to disagree with..

What about the differences with the laugh from below and the laugh which greets him who returns from above our of the light into the den?

[Buffy]

Originally Posted by Merla

So Plato is basically saying that the common man is not educated/intelligent? - That I have to disagree with..

Geez, remember in Plato's day, almost *no one* was able to read. "Educated" basically put you into a strata where you could contemplate things beyond the manual labor you did to stay alive and what your preacher or ward boss (to use modern colloquial terms) told you was true. It was a much simpler day fer shure....

Originally Posted by Merla

What about the differences with the laugh from below and the laugh which greets him who returns from above our of the light into the den?

Been too long since I read it, and I'd have to to respond to this since I it didn't stick at the time....

Cheers,
Buffy