[alxian]

Originally Posted by IrishEyes

"Second Coming".

thanks for bringing that up

who exactly was jesus? he was from the middle east no?

if some guy from the middle east claimed to be jesus and had the stigmata spoke several dead languages and even if he was escorted but warrioirs of light (angels?).. how likely would the western world be to be receptive to him with the current state of affairs with the world?

undoubtedly such a child would be destroyed (unless as with the real jesus he was a hell raiser in his youth) thus unlikely to have reached adulthood, even so i bet such a man would be destroyed, either by his own people our by greedy self absorbed governments.

[IrishEyes]

Originally Posted by alxian

thanks for bringing that up

actually, the italics are because i was using someone else's words. i didn't, and normally will not, bring up subjects like the Second Coming of Christ.

who exactly was jesus? he was from the middle east no?

if some guy from the middle east claimed to be jesus and had the stigmata spoke several dead languages and even if he was escorted but warrioirs of light (angels?).. how likely would the western world be to be receptive to him with the current state of affairs with the world?

undoubtedly such a child would be destroyed (unless as with the real jesus he was a hell raiser in his youth) thus unlikely to have reached adulthood, even so i bet such a man would be destroyed, either by his own people our by greedy self absorbed governments.

I'm really not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you asking who Jesus is? Or are you saying that anyone born now that claimed to be Jesus would probably not make it to adulthood? I'm sorry, I just don't follow your questions.

[alxian]

exactly how you read it and surmised it.

jesus if he came today would not be seen as a messiah by westerners. and given that westerners would be seeking such a man as jesus would be if he said anything contrary to his host nations religions he'd be nuked again like last time. another few centuries and maybe bin laden might inspire a religion of his own.. not in the western world.. but there are those who believe the western world is languishing and won't be around long anyway, china will surpass us soon and the middle east will by proximity benefit from chinese and indian expansions (provided those nations can feed themselves in a few centuries).

[IrishEyes]

Originally Posted by alxian

exactly how you read it and surmised it.

jesus if he came today would not be seen as a messiah by westerners. and given that westerners would be seeking such a man as jesus would be if he said anything contrary to his host nations religions he'd be nuked again like last time. another few centuries and maybe bin laden might inspire a religion of his own.. not in the western world.. but there are those who believe the western world is languishing and won't be around long anyway, china will surpass us soon and the middle east will by proximity benefit from chinese and indian expansions (provided those nations can feed themselves in a few centuries).

You are saying that if Jesus was born today, as opposed to 2000 years ago, he would not be accepted as the Messiah by Western cultures, and that it's very possible that the country in which he was born, in the Middle East, would make sure he was killed?

You're also saying that bin Laden could inspire his own religion? and that the Western world won't be around long anyhow?

[Turtle]

You said Alxian "when people realize there isn't enough food to go around ..." I immediately thought, "soilent green is people".
___Seriously though, I submit this view on any reference to works of Old, be it the bible, or bahgavad gita, or whatever. No matter what the claim in any such works, they are the works of people; persons. I and you are persons. Why should you think that any other person, especially a person from the past, has some advantage over you & I in knowing something about reality? You are after all trying to build an argument on heresay evidence.
___No. I will trust my own personhood, thank you very much, when it comes to these issues. I & you are no less persons than those who claim authority. Mark (Twain) calls this "insect authority".

[alxian]

if he was to come *again* to earth by reincarnation and not from heaven.. sans spaceship.. yes there would be insurmountable racial prejudice to any person from that region who professed to being the messiah. first of all he'd be on there side, meaning a holy jihad against their enemies, second when he left he was most faithful to jews.. who were burned to death *twice*.. thirdly i doubt he'd be impressed by how twisted history has been allowed to become by those in power.. and how profitable it has become..

[alxian]

"soilent green is people"

how about how scary it is my first solution to world hunger has been to have huge fields of such veggies growing off the coast of the least poluted coastlines in the world..

heck antarctica is only empty space.. if we can tweak greens to grow there and absorb more UV and grow faster than normal it would mean free stock for such secondary food sources and veggie burgers?? and other dirivitives.. but i'm thinking about ways to grow them that would not interfere with local ecosystems (why i chose antarctica which has virtually no ecosystems, or much polution) and not to mention the transport industry required to move that much feed stock around the planet.

"insect authority"
twain never accounted for the power of the individual insect to poison the whole. thus humans cannot be likened to a colony, though its the most productive form of our evolution our societies must have governing bodies corraling an discontented populace. its the way of things and it should never change. humans as individuals are too smart and too prone to violence to be left to their own devices, also our evolution has engendered within us the drive to assume command over those we feel are less worthy.

[alexander]

Originally Posted by IrishEyes

You're also saying that bin Laden could inspire his own religion? and that the Western world won't be around long anyhow?

But doesn't bin laden already inspire his own religion?
That second question can get us in a very long and difficult discussion, so i wont start one. However i should probably say that the end is inevitable, and whether the end sparks a new beginning, or a new beginning sparks an end, it is inevitable no matter what we do, because by the time we realize that we have went too far and decided to do something about it, it will be far too late to do anything to prevent it from happening...

[Fishteacher73]

Originally Posted by IrishEyes

yeah, i'd like to echo this question...
which sects "feel it is their duty to push armegedon to provide the conditions for the "Second Coming". As they feel that there is no wrong in trashing the planet and bringing the world to war, because this is neccessary to happen to have Jesus come and take them all to paradise.... "
Or were you just teasing?
And how, exactly, do these sects go about 'pushing' Armageddon? Biblically, this is a place, not a thing. It is referred to as the "Battle of..." not as a separate thing. Or are we talking of different things here?

While I do have some basic knowledge of the Bible, I will admit that I am by no ways a scholar in any way and some of the intricacies I mess up. It is my understanding that there are a series of events that are necessary before Christ's return. The final acumulation was the distruction of the Earth so it can be rebuilt as a paradise for the faithful, which was my understanding, Armagedeon. Maybe I am using a specific event of the seires to term the whole seires, if so, my bad.

Christian Zionist are one of the larger sects pushing toward these "Armegedon" prophecies.. Part of their beleif system is that the Israelites need to reclaim the "Holy Land". This sect is one of the largest funders of the Jewish settlement movement onto the West Bank. They believe this is neccessary for "the Second Comming".

As for the later half of my comment, part jest, but still reasonable extrapolation. If you think the world is going to end iminantly or is neccessary for you to reach heaven/zen/paradise/Wendy's Parking lot/etc. then why would you bother to take care of it?

[bumab]

Originally Posted by Fishteacher73

While I do have some basic knowledge of the Bible, I will admit that I am by no ways a scholar in any way and some of the intricacies I mess up. It is my understanding that there are a series of events that are necessary before Christ's return. The final acumulation was the distruction of the Earth so it can be rebuilt as a paradise for the faithful, which was my understanding, Armagedeon. Maybe I am using a specific event of the seires to term the whole seires, if so, my bad.

No worries! Not many folk think Revelations (the book about Armegeddon) is a literal transcription of events, or that it will come about anytime soon, or the timeframe really matters. It's usually taken as a prophetic poetry, in that it's a figural interpritations of such an event in the future, which will come about, but most likely in an unknown way. As for "bringing it on quicker," that's just plain strange to me.

As for people trashing the planet because it's all going away soon... That really ticks me off too. The FIRST commandment in the Bible is take care of the earth.