[mother engine]

curious to find personal views and information concerning both the use of hallucinagens in tribal rites and the how patterns seen under such states relate to 'receptor geometry' and advanced mathematics.

[orbsycli]

your topics fascinate me, and i wish i could contribute something. i'm extremely curious to see what is to be said.

[Buffy]

Nothing in Castaneda was mathematical. Its been years, but I know I would have noticed at the time...

Happy Trails,
Buffy

[mother engine]

Originally Posted by Buffy

Nothing in Castaneda was mathematical. Its been years, but I know I would have noticed at the time...

Happy Trails,
Buffy

carlos castaneda is known to have falsified certain aspects of his life and is concidered by some to be quite the charlatan so i was thinking more along the lines of non-popularized tribal experiences, though maybe you are just joking and i am being dense.

[Buffy]

There's no question Castaneda made stuff up (or hallucinated the events!), but he really did do serious anthropological research at UCLA, and it was only his "popularization" of this stuff that allowed him to get away with the research he did do. While the students may have reveled at the time in consumption of illicit substances, it was frowned on by faculties and hard to get funding for it (its probably worse now). Castaneda needs to be read with a proverbial block of salt, but there actually is useful stuff to be gleaned from it and I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand....

Cheers,
Buffy

[Morphyous]

I have personally taken in my youth hallucinogenic substances i.e lsd,mescalin, magic mushrooms.
These substances do alter our perception of reality but they can only enhance or dumb down, that which already exists somewhere in our minds.
So when some people say it was only a drug induced experience and not real. I would say that the experiences are real and sometimes super-real but still valid.

I read the Carlos Castenada books and I could identify with his experiences and the experiences of the shaman. It would be impossible to say that it was all true but I felt that he wrote with a lot of integrity.

[Turtle]

___I have seen these visual geometric shapes called entoptic forms. They occur when you rub your eyes hard, but also under the influence of hallucinogens. The claim is made that from cave paintings in France to native cultures round the world, these geometric shapes occur in all manner of paintings & carving, & have in common hallucinogenic/shamanic practice.
___I beg to differ that Castenda never refereed to math; his books brim over with math. The count of days hanging from a ceiling, how much water to add to the root, how big & how many magic circles to draw, how many leaves to keep you warm at night while you lay in your hole.
___What is 'advanced' mathematics? To whom, when, & where?

[mother engine]

Originally Posted by Buffy

There's no question Castaneda made stuff up (or hallucinated the events!), but he really did do serious anthropological research at UCLA, and it was only his "popularization" of this stuff that allowed him to get away with the research he did do. While the students may have reveled at the time in consumption of illicit substances, it was frowned on by faculties and hard to get funding for it (its probably worse now). Castaneda needs to be read with a proverbial block of salt, but there actually is useful stuff to be gleaned from it and I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand....

Cheers,
Buffy

actually i was referring to his birth date and family background which he is known to have falsified. though i agree with your point of not dismissing his work out of hand there are some valid arguments concerning inconsistencies therein that beg the question of whether don juan ever actually existed. but regardless of whether castaneda was actually randomly picked up at a bus stop by a shaman and lead on series of vision quests or not, i do appreciate your comments.

[mother engine]

Originally Posted by Turtle

___I have seen these visual geometric shapes called entoptic forms. They occur when you rub your eyes hard, but also under the influence of hallucinogens.

yes, this connection is part of what i am talking about. is there mathamatical system built into human bio-chemistry that certain drugs reveal?

[Turtle]

___I think there is a mathemamatical (mathemagical) system built into everyhing. Russell I think generally argues that logic supersedes math, but even then only by a degree of one.
___No science, no study, no area of serious inquiry, procedes but by mathematics. How many receptor sites does a neuron have for a hallucinogen? What is the topology of the sites? How many & what kind of neurotransmitters does filling a receptor release? How many different compounds fit a certain receptor topology?
___I see what you mean.