[sanctus]

First of all I have to say that until 2 months ago I was a non-smoker, at the moment I smoke now and then...
I know how extreme it is ins some nations about smoking in public (recently all my university became no-smoking area), and there are discussion about 100% no.smoking trains.... i think this is all hypocrite simply because smog seems to have much higher effects (cf. medical science thread).
There is people pointing the finger as soon as they see a smoker, claiming that against their health (which is true), but what makes me upset is that it is all relative: passive smoke is bad, but living in the smog (with high Ozon levels,etc) is much worse.Well that's what I think.

[Chacmool]

I don't have any medical statistics to prove to you that inhaling second-hand smoke is bad. However, I can speak from personal experience. While it's true that smog and other pollutants are also bad, these particles are more diluted in the air than a smoker's cloud right next to you. I know inhaling someone else's smoke is bad for me, because it gives me an instant migraine. I try my best to avoid places filled with smokers, but I need the government's help to protect my health when I go into public spaces, such as a university or bus.

[Tormod]

Sanctus, passive smoking is not only a nuisance but it has been proven to be as deadly as smoking itself.

I don't mind people smoking outdoors, but I am allergic to cigarette smoke and it could cause a severe asthma attack. I know of one example here in Norway where people smoked during a board meeting, even though one person asked explicitly that they shouldn't because she was allergic. She died in the ambulance on the way to the hospital thanks to their failure to listen to her.

So it is a more complex issue than hypocrisy - for some people (like myself) this is a very serious issue. After smoking indoors (not in private homes, of course) was banned in Norway, I can finally go out and meet friends in pubs and bars without getting ill.

[sanctus]

yes,I agree that passive smoke is as bad (if not worse thansmoke for different combustion heat) as smoking. But that was not my point, I think the effects of smog are much worse,only we don't get headache because we are sort used to it since we are born (a aprt that in Rome I could feel it). I have no proof but i think it is possible that smog is the reason that more and more people have acne and that stuff.
I think all this energy of people against smokers would be better invested and for the well-being of more people if invested to combat smog and pollution; that's why i call it hypocrisy,

[Chacmool]

No, I honestly don't think I'm hypocritical. I cannot stand pollutants of any kind, and therefore I choose to avoid them. I don't wear perfumes with heavy scents, I don't use strong detergents, I don't live in a city with too much smog, etc. - these are all my choices. So I get very upset when I take all these precautions and an inconsiderate smoker still pollutes my personal space.

[Tormod]

Sanctus, *you* may see it as a hypocrisy. That doesn't mean it is. Smog is a big problem too. As is the quality of drinking water, processed food, radiation from power lines etc.

But smoking is the only thing of these that you can actively work against and actually have a direct impact on, by simply not smoking! So the hypocrisy here would - in my opinion - lie in the fact that you think it's perfectly fine to smoke because there are other, worse things - whereas I could die from your inconsideration if you were to smoke in a room I am in (of course...not saying that you would do that).

[Boerseun]

I'm a smoker. So, I'm probably not the best authority to come to the defence of non-smokers. But I do think smokers in general are inconsiderate bastards.

And, in agreement with Tormod, smoking is something we can do something about, not in the mid-term, not in the short term, but immediately. I'm guilty as charged myself, all I need to do is pull my crusty finger out of my nose and QUIT SMOKING.

Hypocrisy, on the other hand, is companies like BP and Shell flooding our televisions with beautiful footage of forests and nature scenes etc., all for the sake of covering the fact that they are the biggest pollutants.

Stop smoking and buy a bicycle.

Yeeeeessssss, good thing it's not New Year - I might have just convinced myself to quit.

[Fishteacher73]

I feel there is a bit of inflexability on both sides. Smoke outdoors seems to be fine with me. I can see that right in front of entry ways is not the best place because all that wish to enter the building must deal with it. Smoking and non-smoking sections in food establishments seems valid as well. Smoke in a bar. I for no real reason can see why people wish to ban smoking in bars. Stop one thing that is bad for you to do another??? Get over it.

I also see no real issue for individuals to ask other not to smoke in common areas. Compliance would just be courtesy, but not compulsory. The non-smoker has legs too. They can leave as well.

[Biochemist]

Originally Posted by Tormod

...passive smoking is not only a nuisance but it has been proven to be as deadly as smoking itself....

T- I think that data is terrible, and should probably be significantly discounted.

There are reams of information related to the dose-response nature of smoking. That is, the number of packs smoked is related to the degree of severity of clinical outcome. This is true for cancer, heart disease and noncancerous pulmonary disease. That is the reason phycicians will typical characterize the quantity of smoking into a number of pack-years. (One pack of cigarettes a day for a year is a pack year.)

It is patently ludicrous to contend that non-smokers incur the same damage that smokers do. It might be reasonable to compare second hand smoke to smog, in that both tend to aggravate pre-existing bronchial conditions. But both states (degree of second hand smoke and smog) will probably have dose responses as well.

[Biochemist]

Originally Posted by Boerseun

...I do think smokers in general are inconsiderate bastards...

I think if we discussed this in the context of consideration, versus "rights" and "health risk" we would be further along. Most folks don't consider burping and/or farting as unhealthy, but we don't generaly burp or fart in other folks faces.

I LOVE cigars, but would never even have one outside if someone around me was disposed against it. This is just common courtesy. Although it does not appear particularly common anymore.