[KickAssClown]

Simple question, complex answer.

What constitutes the mind, the psyche, personality, consciousness, conscience, or otherwise?

There is allot about philosophical zombies and such out there. Theories of AI from many different fields, and not many of them in agreement or parallel with one another.

What makes, shapes and drives a mind? What are it's origins and how does one develop?

Philosophy of the Mind
Theory of the Mind
Holonomic Brain Theory
Artifical Intellegence

[Buffy]

We are being held hostage to our preconcieved notions not only of physiology but of psychology and spirituality. AI has to date failed--not that it won't ever succeed--precisely because people have been uncritical about their preconceived notions of how the brain works. I'm convinced most of these notions are *wrong*. If we sit down with KAC's challenge and start to completely pick apart *all* of the definitions of terms associated with "the mind" and start over from scratch, I think we might get somewhere.

Great topic KAC. Blast away!

Mindful of mindlessness,
Buffy

[KickAssClown]

I ask because I have an model for a Conceptual AI which I am working on and have been since I perceived the conception that is AI. That is became aware of the possibility.

In order to perfect the model, I need to better understand what makes me, me, and us, us. Not in any manner of impercise approximations either. Computers do not allow for very large margins of error and the development of a emergent entity such as an AI is no arbitrary design.

I note that in the study of this subject, there appears to be only light cross over from the various fields.

Here are some key words in the common discussion of the mind.

Ego
Self
Identity
Conscious
Conscience
Sentience
Memory
Psyche
Mind
Personality
Volition
Will
Behavior
Affect
Emotion
Feeling
Desire
Need
Want
Thought
Perception
Imagination
Intellect
Reason
Meme
Subconscious
Preconscious
Holon

[Buffy]

You put meme in this list and I'll refer you to my post in your meme thread.

The interesting thing about this list is that it has exactly the same problem as "creating a meme" and its the trap that most AI efforts have fallen into: "Lets pick a concept that is really hard to explain--to the point that we can't even really define what it is (take "ego" for example--and lets write a computer algorithm to implement it." Same problem that you keep beating people up for in your game design thread, KAC: jumping into implementation is a sure way to fail.

Here though, its worse: the terms are so vague and ill defined, there's no way to figure out where to start. They're vague because they rely on shared experience for which there is no explanatory model.

More importantly, as I've alluded to elsewhere, these concepts you've listed are indeed--as you say in passing--EMERGENT qualities. I don't think we can *design* them, I think we will create them by accident!

Why don't we try some simpler things like, "recognition". Do you *really* know what that word means? Try it out....

Unsimple,
Buffy

[wine]

The mind occured when the brain became dense and impulses became thoughts that were focused on by what I like to call the third eye,

Which isn't an eye anymore than it is a nose.

The mind is the lightning
is the access
is the memory
is the focus.

[InfiniteNow]

When individuals refer to the third eye, they are generally referring to what has evolved into the pineal gland. However, some lizards still use this "eye" to detect transitions from light to dark.

[infamous]

Originally Posted by KickAssClown

Simple question, complex answer.

What constitutes the mind, the psyche, personality, consciousness, conscience, or otherwise?

The mind of man: The deductive process whereby he defines himself and his enviornment.....................Infy

[KickAssClown]

The mind of man: The deductive process whereby he defines himself and his enviornment.....................Infy

Ok, What all does this define? Personality implies behaviors and affects which are measurable by the "outside" world. Also why deductive, why not inductive? If that is the mind then can it ever cease to function? When we die, what is lost?

Your definition though simple, is lacking in crucial descriptive content. I would suggest checking it against the fallacies of definition. I can no more model a mind by such a drop of water in the lake than I could form a dinning room from a chair.

[infamous]

Originally Posted by KickAssClown

I can no more model a mind by such a drop of water in the lake than I could form a dinning room from a chair.

Or, make a mountain out of a molehill................Infy

[Kriminal99]

I made a thread called "a new belief set" earlier and have not really finished it. In it are the beginnings of a model of the human mind that if understood, is completely coherent with everything that people do, experience, and all scientific data we have collected on the human mind.

Using this I would just say that the mind is something which processes perceptions and controls our body based on emotional motivators. We are kind of just along for the ride, but the ride is defined by the raw feels of emotions and perceptions. The human mind could be defined by exactly the same model as I have laid out (which does not speculate so much on the physical), but each emotion could feel different and every sound sight taste etc could be different as well.