Are older people capable of rational thought?

[TZK]

I once read something talking about what happens to a person's brain as they age. It was talking about how free radicals eventually damaged a certain portion of the person's brain (I think called the hyptholomus or some such) responsible for storing long term memories.

The study seemed to indicate that it was not known what the precise effects of this would be and that people with such damaged brains still appeared to be able to function in every day life.

We are all familiar with the saying "You can't teach an old dog new tricks", and that older people are often considered stubborn compared to younger people. It seems likely that there is some kind of connection.

What if it was simply the case that as people get older they become less able to learn complex new ideas and adapt to new ways of thinking? I mean to some degree it seems to be accepted that this is true, but the question is how severe is it really?

What if older people could only make minor inferences from things that they already knew, and when exposed to new ideas they were forced to straw man them into something that already made sense to them?

Imagine the irony of debating with an older person who became angry and frustrated when you persisted in trying to explain a new idea (perhaps one that is superior to their thinking, but that they failed to understand while their brain was still intact) only because he was physically in capable of understanding what you were trying to say... ie you were fighting a lost cause...

Imagine how impaired we would be as a race if our buisnesses and governments are being run by people physically incapable of adaptation?

[coberst]

I think that, generally speaking, people over the age of forty tend to lose they sense of curiosity unless that sense of curiosity has been cultivated. Curiosity and caring are necessary conditions for an alert mind and these characteristics tend to atrophy with age if they are left unused. Such atrophy need not happen if a person maintains an active intellectual life as they age. A word to the young and wise don't let this happen to you. Get an intellectual life after your school days are over, don't put your intellect away in the attic with your year book.

[Zythryn]

Yes

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by coberst

I think that, generally speaking, people over the age of forty tend to lose they sense of curiosity unless that sense of curiosity has been cultivated. Curiosity and caring are necessary conditions for an alert mind and these characteristics tend to atrophy with age if they are left unused. Such atrophy need not happen if a person maintains an active intellectual life as they age. A word to the young and wise don't let this happen to you. Get an intellectual life after your school days are over, don't put your intellect away in the attic with your year book.

That's some good wisdom there.

The next time a friend calls me a dork when I bring up a discussion I read here at Hypo, I'll say, "No, I'm cultivating my curiousity".

But seriously, great advice.
Use it or lose it.

[orbsycli]

amen

[TZK]

Originally Posted by coberst

I think that, generally speaking, people over the age of forty tend to lose they sense of curiosity unless that sense of curiosity has been cultivated. Curiosity and caring are necessary conditions for an alert mind and these characteristics tend to atrophy with age if they are left unused. Such atrophy need not happen if a person maintains an active intellectual life as they age. A word to the young and wise don't let this happen to you. Get an intellectual life after your school days are over, don't put your intellect away in the attic with your year book.

I wondered about that myself. Sometimes biologists and psychologists will say that X is caused by some physical occurence, when really the physical occurence is caused by X or something in your life that caused X as well.

I wonder if the physical decay would not occur as you seem to be implying if you frequently gained new long term memories even at older ages. Have you come across anything in your studies that indicates this?

I can see that most people who age probably tend to use this portion of their brain less and less as they develop a niche and concentrate their mental energy on it... And are less likely to make belief set altering new discoveries...

Probably for the same reason life seems less and less emotional as you get older...

[InfiniteNow]

TZK, I advise you read more into neuroplasticity. It's not as if portions of the brain are lost or hit by alpha particles (free radicals). While that does happen, it does not generally result in the all out ability/memory loss you imply.

Basically, we're born with a central nervous system, itself composed of vast connections of neurons. Single neurons branch out and connect with multiple others. The more branches, the more associations. As we age, the substructure gets more and more defined, and new branches then attach to that.

Think of rain falling over decades on the same mountain. When the first rains fell, the little streams created went in all different ways. Then, as the rains continue, certain streams get deeper and wider, and eventually when it rains all water tends to flow into these main tributaries. It's not as if new tributaries cannot branch out, it's just that they tend to be more closely connected to the main.

Older people have deeper "streams" making up their nervous system. They have new experiences all of the time, and continue to make new associations, but they also have the machinery which explains a much greater percentage of all new experience than they had when younger.

They are less neural plastic, but absolutely capable.


Cheers.

[coberst]

Originally Posted by TZK

I wondered about that myself. Sometimes biologists and psychologists will say that X is caused by some physical occurence, when really the physical occurence is caused by X or something in your life that caused X as well.

I wonder if the physical decay would not occur as you seem to be implying if you frequently gained new long term memories even at older ages. Have you come across anything in your studies that indicates this?

I can see that most people who age probably tend to use this portion of their brain less and less as they develop a niche and concentrate their mental energy on it... And are less likely to make belief set altering new discoveries...

Probably for the same reason life seems less and less emotional as you get older...

I am a retired engineer who maintained the learning process continually throughout my life. If you are interested you can read my essay "September Scholar" at my web site index

[JamesBrown]

Originally Posted by TZK

I once read something talking about what happens to a person's brain as they age.
...
Imagine how impaired we would be as a race if our buisnesses and governments are being run by people physically incapable of adaptation?

The question is - What do you consider old?
I remember at one time anyone over 30 was, by defination, old. Now I have raised that number to about 85.
I know this isn't a political board but I think that is what we have going on now (incapable of adaptation)...

[Qfwfq]

Are today's young people capable of rational thinking? I've had experience of great efforts in getting something across to young people who are on their job and can't understand a simple solution to a problem when I point it out, and keep saying it can't be done and trying to get off with somethong different and then, when my repeated words finally begin to sink in, sometimes it's more like they've suddenly had the brilliant idea and have to convince me, the dolt that was refusing to understand them, explaining me exactly what I had been saying all along.

Originally Posted by TZK

What if it was simply the case that as people get older they become less able to learn complex new ideas and adapt to new ways of thinking?

"But Granny I'm not saying those ain't a cool pair of jeans I mean you just gotta see I can't show up at a Bon Jovi concert in like that ya know it's just obvious an' it wouldn't go with the right kinda lipstick and piercing and tatoos and anyway how could they see I've got the right underware on could ya even imagine anyone doin' it?"

"You mean you'd pass for a square?"

"For a whaaaaaaat? What the heck's it gotta do with squaaaaares an' stuff? How can ya not understand would you have shown up at a Bon Jovi like that when you were a girl?"

Originally Posted by JamesBrown

I know this isn't a political board but I think that is what we have going on now (incapable of adaptation)...

Is it 'cause I'm just an old fogey that I can't quite see the nexus?