Time doesn't exist...?

[Nismoskyline]

Thank you for stating what the facts really are. Im only 17 and dont know very much, as you can probably tell. I have a feeling I will learn mass amounts of information from this forum though.

[lindagarrette]

Originally Posted by rectangleboy

so, given that time is just there, can it exist without the universe? It kinda' seems that way, but does time still have a beginning? I know no one may really have an answer, but what are your ideas?

According to the Standard Model of the Universe (Big Bang Theory) there was nothing before the universe began, not time, no space, nothing. String Theory proposes other solutions but it's still in early research.

[pgrmdave]

Originally Posted by OpenMind5

I don't think time exsits, and i thin kwe can exsit without it.

Thing exsit and happen in cycles. But we as humans have created "time" (Measurment) to measure the exsitance of somthing in numbers that we can understand

.

This isn't true - just like distance exists without measurement, time exists as well. If nobody measured it, there would still be distance, just like there is time.

I think, though I could be wrong, that time is changes. As in, if nothing changed at all - no movement at all at any level, there would be no time. I see time less like a river and more like cylinder made of thousands of discs. Each disc is a 'slice' of time, but each disc 'coexists'. We only experiance what we call time through the direction of cause and effect.

[lindagarrette]

Originally Posted by pgrmdave

.

I think, though I could be wrong, that time is changes. As in, if nothing changed at all - no movement at all at any level, there would be no time.

That's a pretty good description. Since we use time to measure events, before there was the universe, there were no events, consequently, no time.

[C1ay]

Originally Posted by lindagarrette

before there was the universe, there were no events, consequently, no time.

I don't think we can say what was or wasn't before our universe. We can speculate but that's all, we can draw no conclusions based on our observations thus far. Maybe an event in a previous universe gave birth to our present universe, for instance.

[maddog]

Einstein is quoted as saying, "Time is method we use to keep everything from
happening all at once".

Another point is that QM can be worked out for photons independent of time. This
is called the "time independent frame". Another more (though philosophical way
of saying it) is a photon does not "experience" time. I use quotes around the word
experience because I don't mean there is intelligence in the photon. It is just like
the event horizon of a black hole as for a photon. Time is essentially not present
(vanishes). There are case where time is then not essential. The measurement
of time (watch, clock, rotation earth, etc) are convention like the value of money.
Time use as a variable to measure the distance a particle travels, velocity, amount
of work performed, power and so on. In fact most derivatives are taken wrt to
time. This implies there would need be some observer to count the time. The
minimum here is a conciousness (does not need sentience maybe). This is what
Paul was getting at (to collapse the wave function).

Maddog

[lindagarrette]

Originally Posted by maddog

Einstein is quoted as saying, "Time is method we use to keep everything from
happening all at once".

Another point is that QM can be worked out for photons independent of time. This
is called the "time independent frame". Another more (though philosophical way
of saying it) is a photon does not "experience" time. I use quotes around the word
experience because I don't mean there is intelligence in the photon. It is just like
the event horizon of a black hole as for a photon. Time is essentially not present
(vanishes). There are case where time is then not essential. The measurement
of time (watch, clock, rotation earth, etc) are convention like the value of money.
Time use as a variable to measure the distance a particle travels, velocity, amount
of work performed, power and so on. In fact most derivatives are taken wrt to
time. This implies there would need be some observer to count the time. The
minimum here is a conciousness (does not need sentience maybe). This is what
Paul was getting at (to collapse the wave function).

Maddog

It's my understanding that the observer effect is merely symbolic because it requires statistical analysis to determine the status of a quantum entity. Space/time and quantum effects are not directly related to each other. As you mentioned, at hte quantum level, time is not required for description purposes. A particle can exist in the same place at the same time regardless of the presence of an observer.

[lindagarrette]

Originally Posted by C1ay

I don't think we can say what was or wasn't before our universe. We can speculate but that's all, we can draw no conclusions based on our observations thus far. Maybe an event in a previous universe gave birth to our present universe, for instance.

Anything is possible, however unlikely.

[NomadaNare]

I heard a theory that all time that has ever been and that ever will be all happens at once. It's kinda weird but from our point of view, it makes sense. Discuss

[maddog]

Originally Posted by NomadaNare

I heard a theory that all time that has ever been and that ever will be all happens at once. It's kinda weird but from our point of view, it makes sense. Discuss

I think you talking of the Many Worlds Theory by Everett (from 50s). Basically this an interpretation of
the wave function describing an event that hasn't actually happened yet. The wave function hasn't yet
collapsed and the outcome is not known. It is as though a bunch of universes existed where all the
variations of this event are all there to collapse into the outcome and it could be any one of them.
Even today it goes in and out of favor...

Maddog