GOD

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Andrameleh
In general I tend to agree with Freethinker.

Hey! Where'd you come from? I don't know how to hand this! Now I have to wonder what I said that was wrong! :-)

[geko]

I agree. It shouldnt be denied that centuries of murder, torture and abuse have come as a direct result of religious influence. But this itself does not negate the teachings taught.

For all you believers i want to say and ask the following.

The bible (ALL religion) is a philosophy. Should philosophies be accepted, believed and followed (or vice-versa)on the basis of their emotional response in the reader, without critical and cursory examination? What would your comments be with regard to the reasoning of someone, or group, that did such a thing? How do you think the teachings should be approached?

Also, if philosophies fail to stand up to the questions posed due to their incomplete arguments should they still be seen as 'The Truth'? Are the people who do still choose to see them as the truth in denial? Ignorant? Open-minded? Or simply the only ones that have the courage left to see the light?

And by the way, i find it hard to believe that anyone in this day and age actually accepts the flood (as told in the story) as an historical event. Amazing! Isnt it just a creation and renewal myth about how humans have triumphed through bad times???

[rileyj]

"again shows the harmful, hateful, prejudicial mindset promoted by religious belief."

wow what happened to you? religion isn't that bad. even if god isn't real, i oubt that it causes as many problems as you think.

[rileyj]

besides you would have to look at the mind set of the people, who probably used religion as a reason to kill a person or group of people. just because someone uses religion as a reason to kill doesnt make religion bad, only that person. besides if there wasnt religion i'm sure they would find another reason

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: rileyj
"again shows the harmful, hateful, prejudicial mindset promoted by religious belief."



wow what happened to you?

I learned to think. That is what happened to me. And I DO mean "Learned". Just like any other physical process, from golfing to making love, thinking can be done better by studying the process and developing a method of taking advantage of identified improvements.

religion isn't that bad. even if god isn't real, i oubt that it causes as many problems as you think.

Show me a major religion that has NOT been cause of hatred and murder.

Religion Etymology: Middle English, from Old French religieus, from Latin religiosus, from religio - supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice,1 : relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity.

As such, by it's very nature, a religion establishes itself as the SUPERIOR philosophy over and above ALL OTHER philosophies. Thus at it's base, it establishes a selfrighteous superiority in the mind of the believer, a prejudicial pecking order. It provides motivation for the believer to make proactive efforts to enforce it's self assigned superiority over the philosophy of others. Add to this that every one of the written revelation based religions has it's own text which specifically requires it's adherents to suppress and kill others.

Then look at the factual historical reality which provides extensive support for this assertion.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: rileyj
besides you would have to look at the mind set of the people, who probably used religion as a reason to kill a person or group of people. just because someone uses religion as a reason to kill doesnt make religion bad, only that person.

When a person decides to follow a particular religion, and that religion's text states things like:

Luke 19: 27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

and that follower then "slays" someone as instructed, there is nothing that can refute the DIRECT CAUSAL relationship.

besides if there wasnt religion i'm sure they would find another reason

Nothing can cause a person to act against their inherent altruistic nature with anywhere near the level of motivation that a religion can.

Show us what motivation could be used by an Atheist to kill thousands, including themselves in the process, that gets even close to the believed promise of godly reward in an afterlife including 76 virgins for enterity.

[rileyj]

"selfrighteous superiority"

i don't think all religions establish this,in fact many teach that their "god" is superior, not people. you can't blame religious beliefs for the actions of people, people that do wrong in the name of religion, again would find other reason to do wrong if religion was not around. andi'm sure there is a religion that has not caused hatred or murder. idoubt those little guys at the airport giving away flowers killing anyone. or what about the monks that set themselves on fire to protest war. i'm sure gandi never hurt anyone. that guy put a screen over thewater he drank so as not to swallow any bugs that might have gotten in there.

[rileyj]

"Show us what motivation could be used by an Atheist to kill thousands, including themselves in the process"
what about a postal worker that kills all his co-workers.

[rileyj]

and what about the american revolution thousands were killed for that or the civil war

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: rileyj
"selfrighteous superiority"



i don't think all religions establish this,in fact many teach that their "god" is superior, not people.

Yes religions teach that THEIR god is no only Superior, but in today's montheistic ones, the ONLY god.

But this directly translates into the "selfrighteous superiority" for those that follow it.

I know most believers CLAIM otherwise. But it is NEVER a god itself that makes the proclaimation of it's superiority. It is ALWAYS the followers. Thus while their claim may not be for their PERSONAL superiority (n fact they typically claim self debasement), it is ALWAYS for their beliefs superiority.

Look at the arguments presented here on other threads. The Beleivers ALWAYS claim to have absolutely perfect knowledge. They always claim that no matter what, no matter that they can not produce a single verifyable factual support, that they KNOW their god exists and IS the ONLY god.

Self debasement and pusuit of persecution are typical qualities promoted to believers by their religions.

"Christians are not perfect, just saved!"

is a classic example. It establishes the follower as inferior in and of themselves. But ultimately SUPERIOR TO OTHERS. And the more they are ridiculedor abused, the more they are going to be rewarded.

you can't blame religious beliefs for the actions of people,

as always. It is easy to CLAIM something. But let's see it stand up to critical analysis.

I gave a specific example of a Christian Biblical Tenet and the direct results of it.

PROVE it is WRONG.