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Old 10-16-2006   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Does Wikipedia provide false authority to our sound-bite society?

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Originally Posted by coberst
Cedars

I call our society the sound-bite society because we so often consider the sound-bite or bumper-sticker to be sufficient knowledge for anyone. In that illusion we do not become very intellectually sophisticated.

As far as a bumpersticker response, whether or not it is appropriate would depend on whether it summed up the condition correctly or not.

~My H.S. dropout can beat up your honor student~

http://www.internetbumperstickers.com/

OK back to your soundbyte.... Are you saying that unless a person is intellectually sophisticated they shouldnt argue with you?
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Old 10-16-2006   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Does Wikipedia provide false authority to our sound-bite society?

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Originally Posted by InfiniteNow
When you said "we," you actually meant the first-person "I," referring to just yourself.
It's the royal we.

I'd argue that not all knowledge requires a sophisticated understanding of the subject. For example, I have a very general understanding of relativity. It is not sufficient to argue with Q about it, but it is sufficient to argue with your general FTL crackpot.

coberst is right in that you cannot have a sophisticated argument about gay rights with someone with an "Adam and Steve" bumper sticker - but that doesn't mean that you couldn't have a VERY in depth conversation with them about something else - like quantum physics, or agriculture, or welding, or electronics, or something.

Interestingly, the word "sophisticated" and "sophistry" have the same root word.

TFS


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Old 10-16-2006   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Does Wikipedia provide false authority to our sound-bite society?

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Originally Posted by TheFaithfulStone
...coberst is right in that you cannot have a sophisticated argument about gay rights with someone with an "Adam and Steve" bumper sticker - but that doesn't mean that you couldn't have a VERY in depth conversation with them about something else - like quantum physics, or agriculture, or welding, or electronics, or something.
One important distinction.
You can have a very sophisticated argument with someone with an "Adam and Steve" bumper sticker. The presense of a bumper sticker does not mean that is the limit of their position. I would agree that you couldn't have a very sophisticated argument with their bumper sticker though


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Old 10-16-2006   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Does Wikipedia provide false authority to our sound-bite society?

Fair enough. If the bumper sticker adequately represents their knowledge of the issue however - it would be difficil.

TFS


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Old 10-16-2006   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Does Wikipedia provide false authority to our sound-bite society?

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Originally Posted by TheFaithfulStone
Fair enough. If the bumper sticker adequately represents their knowledge of the issue however - it would be difficil.

TFS

Very true, however I don't believe that is the case.
True, sound bites and cute slogans are rampant in our society. I believe that you really can't place a well stated detailed argument on a car bumper, while a cute slogan will fit.

While I don't hold the average intellect in as poor esteem as you, I would agree that cute slogans have more infuence over people, even if they are not the limit of peoples knowledge.


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"Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents; it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

(Ancient Indian Proverb)"

1874 engraving of Mount Hood and the Columbia River by R. Henshel Wood
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Old 10-16-2006   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Does Wikipedia provide false authority to our sound-bite society?

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Originally Posted by Zythryn
While I don't hold the average intellect in as poor esteem as you
Hey now! Didn't I just say you could have a discussion about quantum mechanics with the guy?

I think it's unfair to say that I hold the "average intellect [in] poor esteem."

TFS


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Old 10-16-2006   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Does Wikipedia provide false authority to our sound-bite society?

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Originally Posted by coberst
Does Wikipedia provide false authority to our sound-bite society?
What is true authority?


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Old 10-17-2006   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Does Wikipedia provide false authority to our sound-bite society?

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Originally Posted by InfiniteNow
Okay, my understanding is thus. Perhaps you can confirm it's accuracy.

When you said "we," you actually meant the first-person "I," referring to just yourself.
Good point. Sometimes I say 'we' when I mean 'most others', sometimes I say 'we' when I mean 'I' and sometimes I say 'I' when I mean 'I'. I suspect all polite conversation is done in this manner. Certainly political talk is often done in this way. One recent example was when Hastert said we take the blame for this happening.
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Old 10-17-2006   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Does Wikipedia provide false authority to our sound-bite society?

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Originally Posted by Cedars

OK back to your soundbyte.... Are you saying that unless a person is intellectually sophisticated they shouldnt argue with you?
No Anyone who can put together a coherent argument should do so.
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Old 10-17-2006   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Does Wikipedia provide false authority to our sound-bite society?

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Originally Posted by TheFaithfulStone
It's the royal we.

I'd argue that not all knowledge requires a sophisticated understanding of the subject. For example, I have a very general understanding of relativity. It is not sufficient to argue with Q about it, but it is sufficient to argue with your general FTL crackpot.

coberst is right in that you cannot have a sophisticated argument about gay rights with someone with an "Adam and Steve" bumper sticker - but that doesn't mean that you couldn't have a VERY in depth conversation with them about something else - like quantum physics, or agriculture, or welding, or electronics, or something.

Interestingly, the word "sophisticated" and "sophistry" have the same root word.

TFS
I think that 'sophisticated' is a relative term and is one that has levels. It might be like the term 'hot'. A fourth grader is generally more sophisticated than a first grader, etc.

I would have assumed since both words start with 'soph'
that there would be some kind of relationship.
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