Natural it is

[Todesangst]

It was just a thought. Ever wonder why people called something natural as *natural*. its a bit tricky, but i guess everyone understand what i'm trying to say. Anyway, i guess this is the right forum eh. and thanks for the help Tormod.

[sanctus]

Welcome to the forum and yes it is the right place to post it.

I think it's a matter of convention. For example humans are made by nature, so they are natural therfore every action of a human is natural. I guess you know heaps of human actions that are not usually classified of natural.

I think the convention is that the a thing is natural if the human action on it is minimised.

[Freethinker]

True Sanctus. By agreed convention "Natural" tends to mean things that happen without human interaction. Even though humans are nature and as such our actions should not be considered UNnatural.

[TINNY]

Because I believe in free-will and that only humans have it, I say that humans are not natural meaning they can act independently from the influences of nature.
I say that there is one general rule of nature - the progression of matter. That's the only natural thing. So if human beings were to act in accordance with the progression of matter, then its a natural thing to do.
That's what I call natural.

*yawning*getting sleepy*yawning*

[lindagarrette]

Humans think they have free will because they don't understand how the universe works. This topic has been covered pretty thoroughly in otherthreads and in hypographies. It is another one of those "belief" systems that has no basis in reality.

[Freethinker]

Originally Posted by TINNY

Because I believe in free-will and that only humans have it,

Tinny, show us ANY example of humans havng a freewill that other animals do not. Not one based on a superior intellect (other animal's can't create an effective spreadsheet), but show us an example of how a human can take an action that reflects freewill while all other animals would not have that option.

[TINNY]

Freethinker, you'll never accept anything from me as right. And rightly so I suppose.... thus my signature.
I don't know how to show you free-will because I have to show that a person can make two or more different choices in an exact situation and that the choices were made because they wanted to. How can I show this when no moment is the exact same as before?

[TINNY]

A deterministic world implies an infinitely old universe since one moment is caused by the moments before it. If the universe had a starting point, then that starting point must be an act of freewill.

[Todesangst]

anyone kind enough to give me the meaning of natural and nature from the sense of philosophy. I think its pretty important for the topic. Thanks for the reply and i certainly hope no one ever thinks that he is always right. Have a nice day and feel free to forward your ideas(as if i needed to say that).

[Todesangst]

I would personally say that the word natural is introduce to us human by the fact that some of the things in the world which existed or rather happens seems to be unexplainable. take an example of sex. this might be a little bit out of the topic but i hope somebody can see something through it. Why do we need to have sex. why are we so interested in sex. Think about it and you'll see what i mean. By chance, most people would answer that we have sex in order to preserve our existance or rather the existance of our species in this universe. such answer will only lead to the question why do we need to exist. And it is pretty obvious someone would answer that it is natural for human beings to want to let their blood continue to roam the world. the word natural seems to be playing around with us. In other word try not to use the word natural/nature in your reply(as much as you can). in another comlicated example. ahhhh..... maybe i will keep that for later. Pretty long already