[coberst]

Hen Precedes Egg, Mother Precedes Infant

While the hen and the mother precedes in time the egg and the infant, the egg and the infant are the means for changing the natures of future hens and future mothers.

A human impulse such as fear can result in a sadistic act, or altruism, or despair, or hope all depending upon the social environment and the preformed habits of the individual. A wo/man may fear or revere the spirit of ancestors; they may fear or revere authority. “The actual outcome depends upon how the impulse of fear is interwoven with other impulses. This depends in turn on the outlets and inhibitions supplied by the social environment.”

Whether we are speaking of generation X or Y, or the great or the millennial generation, each generation represents renewal with all of its potential and all of its disappointments. The species is constantly being renewed for good or for bad; all this ‘just happens’ without conscious intention. Everyone is just trying to get along.

The young new generation makes continuous alteration in the society even though these alterations are unintended, they just kind of follow surreptitiously from accidental happenings. With the dawn of the idea that one can make improvements in society based upon channeling the impulses of the young, new social institutions were born. Education was to become the means for directing the impulses of the young in directions that would slowly modify the present society into more useful modes.

Such is the meaning of education; “for a truly humane education consists in an intelligent direction of native activities in the light of the possibilities and necessities of the social situation. But for the most part, adults have given training rather than education…The younger generation has hardly even knocked frankly at the door of adult customs, much less been invited in to rectify through better education the brutalities and inequities established in adult habit…Each generation has crept blindly and furtively through such chance gaps as have happened to be left open.”

Quotes from “Human Nature and Conduct” by John Dewey first printed in 1922

[Overdog]

Originally Posted by coberst

...The young new generation makes continuous alteration in the society even though these alterations are unintended, they just kind of follow surreptitiously from accidental happenings. With the dawn of the idea that one can make improvements in society based upon channeling the impulses of the young, new social institutions were born. Education was to become the means for directing the impulses of the young in directions that would slowly modify the present society into more useful modes.

And who decides what that direction will be, and what modes of society are more useful?

It is not clear to me how the use of the word "Education" in this context is distinguished from "Indoctrination"

Indoctrination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One view of Education is that it encompasses both teaching AND learning, and in this view, the role of teachers is to facilitate student learning.

Teacher - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[coberst]

Originally Posted by Overdog

And who decides what that direction will be, and what modes of society are more useful?

It is not clear to me how the use of the word "Education" in this context is distinguished from "Indoctrination"

Indoctrination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One view of Education is that it encompasses both teaching AND learning, and in this view, the role of teachers is to facilitate student learning.

Teacher - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dewey tells us this is the meaning of education:

“for a truly humane education consists in an intelligent direction of native activities in the light of the possibilities and necessities of the social situation. But for the most part, adults have given training rather than education…The younger generation has hardly even knocked frankly at the door of adult customs, much less been invited in to rectify through better education the brutalities and inequities established in adult habit…Each generation has crept blindly and furtively through such chance gaps as have happened to be left open.”

I suspect the answer to your question rests on the meaning of the phrase "intelligent direction".

Is indoctrination of students intelligent direction? I doubt that many would find it to be.

Is focusing almost absolutely on making education a trade school? I suspect that there is the problem. I suspect that well educated adults, according to Dewey’s definition, would not choose this route. Alas, perhaps today's adults are as poorly educated as Dewey argues to be the case.

[Overdog]

Originally Posted by coberst

Dewey tells us this is the meaning of education:

“for a truly humane education consists in an intelligent direction of native activities in the light of the possibilities and necessities of the social situation. But for the most part, adults have given training rather than education…The younger generation has hardly even knocked frankly at the door of adult customs, much less been invited in to rectify through better education the brutalities and inequities established in adult habit…Each generation has crept blindly and furtively through such chance gaps as have happened to be left open.”

I suspect the answer to your question rests on the meaning of the phrase "intelligent direction".

Is indoctrination of students intelligent direction? I doubt that many would find it to be.

Is focusing almost absolutely on making education a trade school? I suspect that there is the problem. I suspect that well educated adults, according to Dewey’s definition, would not choose this route. Alas, perhaps today's adults are as poorly educated as Dewey argues to be the case.

I think we pretty much agree. The problem is that it is so much easier to indoctrinate than it is to facilitate learning...and so indoctrination is what many teacher's end up doing. Alas, indeed.

[coberst]

Dewey informs us that the docility and plasticity of the young are taken advantage of in our educational institutions. The original youthful acceptance of adult supervision has not been given a fair chance to impulsively examine the possibility for a different mode of being. The young student “is loaded with convention, biased by adult convenience…practically rendered into an equivalent of non-assertion of originality, a pliant accommodation to the embodied opinions of others.”

The young are taught what to think and not how to think. Teaching what is easier and safer than teaching the how of human thought.

Native activities of the young are often accommodative assimilation and others that tend toward exploration and discovery. But adult custom accentuates the tendencies toward conformity and eliminates those toward variation and independence. Curiosity and critical independence is tamed.

[Overdog]

Yes, these are limitations of our public school system. No question about it. Public education is an extroardinarily complex enterprise, with extroardinarily complex problems, with constitutional, political, legal, and economic contraints on what can be done. I suspect there will always be much to complain about in public education.