Belief, Faith, Truth, and Science

[REASON]

Originally Posted by niin

this look like a tautology to me.

So you think knowledge is the same thing as belief? Knowledge is information one has acquired. Belief is one's opinion, or their validation of that knowledge. One can gain information that they choose not to believe. One can form a belief around a small amount of information, that thay may change with additional, or different information.

Originally Posted by niin

If the person was a Christian fundamentalist, i would expect that person to reject the darwinian model.

The example Larv suggested is perfectly accurate. Anyone, incluing a Christian fundamentalist, can change thei mind or modify their beliefs if they so choose.

Originally Posted by niin

I don't believe that is true.
"believe it and you will believe it" is not an effective persuasive argument.

I never said that. Belief and faith are not the same thing as you suggest. Belief is an opinion, faith is trust.

Originally Posted by niin

There actually is some facts associated with religion.

Name some, please!

[niin]

Originally Posted by REASON

So you think knowledge is the same thing as belief?

No.

Originally Posted by REASON

I never said that. Belief and faith are not the same thing as you suggest. Belief is an opinion, faith is trust.

I never said that you said that.
Belief and faith is almost the same thing.
You have information and you act on it.
If someone ask why you did it, you can say:
1) I believe this information
2) I have faith in this information.

both seem like valid answers to me.

[Larv]

Originally Posted by REASON

Name some, please!

If I may jump in here...

My favorite fact associated with religion is the fact of "holy terror." You can see it historically and you can see it today. Religions characteristically inspire a belief that your spiritual comfort in the after-life will be determined by your adherence to their specified dogma in present-day life. To those who beieve in that sort of thing, "holy terror" is a natural fact, worrisome enough to induce desperate pleas for mercy by way of prayers, confessions, and penance—even self-flagellation and suicide bombings qualify as paths to glory or whatever. The manifestation of this religious fact—"holy terror"—is the consequence of the bicameral mind stiffling the emergence of consciousness, if I may invoke Julian Jaynes' principle once again. And it may be literally measurable by examining the evolution of language.

—Larv

[Rade]

Science = "uncertain knowledge". To say you "know" something (via science)is not the same as to say you "believe" something (a non scientific process).
Knowledge derives from interaction of a material being with the "metaphysical", belief derives from interaction with the "transcendental" (the two operations are opposites, and the reason why science has nothing to say about belief and the transcendental). To say you "know" [X] you have 0.0 % belief that [X]. To say you "believe" [X] you have 0.0 % knowledge that [X]. "Reason" is the only standard of truth--"truth" is the identification of a fact of reality. "Faith" is a state of mental tension falsely attempting to form synthesis of belief and truth.