Science is close-minded

Thunderbird · 06-24-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeztar

I realize that.
Do you realize how your post was initially off-topic?

No,

I think you are still pissed about the.. you know.

Thunderbird · 06-24-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeztar

Indeed, but the advancement of the science automatically builds a defense against creationists. It's a by-product of the science.

One Mod at a time please.

freeztar · 06-24-2008

Another communication breakdown...

I'm sending you a PM TBird.

InfiniteNow · 06-24-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

Some assume theory is just about the black and white of fact or fiction.
The core of theoretical research is about collecting more information, this represents the dynamical aspect of theory. Information that can produces more insights.

Its not just about the facts, this is the easy part, but the generation of new information.

Since you've been referring repeatedly to a thread which I started, I will address your concern thusly.

Thunderbird, when you miss the point, you really miss it hard, bud.

Thunderbird · 06-24-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfiniteNow

Since you've been referring repeatedly to a thread which I started, I will address your concern thusly.

Thunderbird, when you miss the point, you really miss it hard, bud.

Well that was clear....

Thunderbird · 06-24-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeztar

Another communication breakdown...

I'm sending you a PM TBird.

Great PM Frezee, truth and humor

. All is well my friend .

REASON · 06-24-2008

First of all, thanks to freezbie for addressing T-bird's reply to my message so appropriately. I'll just add a few comments:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

There is no serious debate in science if evolution takes place. the work in progress is about the mechanisms involved. Evolutionary biologist do not work to advance arguments to defend evolution against creationist, they are working to advance science. Do you get my drift.

There may not be any serious debate among scientists, but there sure is among members posting here at Hypo and those around the world viewing these threads. I think the thread Evolution is Fact is directed at creationists.

I do get your drift relative to science though and I agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-bird

The term "established theory" means a working model that scientist utilize in the past to further an understanding of natural process, that is all. If you start defending it as anything more than that you will be trapped by it. Natural process will always be more complex than the models used to describe them.

It is not my intention to defend "established theories" against anything but misinformation, misinterpretation, and distortion. It is in this type of defence that many feel science becomes "closed-minded." "Established theories" are always vulnerable to new evidence which may be contrary, or provide enhancement.

I agree with your last statement above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-bird

Our views of science are fundamentally at odds then. In my view attacking the integrity of established theory with a hypothesis based on new data is good science, as opposed to you're view that protecting the integrity of a model against a group who's views are of 0 importance in science.

I don't think we're fundamentally at odds in this regard. My implication was that established theories supported by empirical evidence should be protected from speculation and hypothetical interpretations that are not supported by evidence. I think you have misrepresented my statement, which is an example of what I mean.

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-bird

Where you and differ is you think attacking an evolutionary models is going to break it. I think attacking it will make it evolve into something better.

Sorry. This is not what I think. How about if I said that your need to "attack" the establishment has to do with something else other than the advancement of science, like some longstanding personal resistance to authority? Would it be appropriate for me to make such a claim? I don't think so.

I am all about the improvement of scientific knowledge. I resist attempts to use unsubstantiated claims to distort what we have come to understand so far. I also admit that because I am not a scientist, I will defer to scientific experts in their respective fields.

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-bird

You are going to have to be specific about “data” you just cannot say show me data. When there hasn't been any specific claim that calls for data.

The freezed one already correctly responded to this. He is a man of vast wisdom and understanding.

Thunderbird · 06-25-2008

Freeze does have it right in the pm he sent me about falsely assumed by some of being a clever creationist. {oxymoron }He has known for a good wile that I am not. This did frustrate the conversation with other Mods that seemed to be stuck in this defensive mode. I just wanted to have discussion about science vs. science, just because I have a interest and I think a facility for it. So when I was repeatedly spoke down to on a subject that I have spent so much time studying,... well I’m sure you guy’s know the feeling . I had went though my period a few years ago of debating this on the ARN board and made peace with some that could hold the two paradigms as separate but equal. The purely spiritual, and the purely scientific, so I let go of the debate and realized the enemy was not a group of people, but rather ignorance and arrogance. I also find that science is better served by advancing new ideas into the spotlight of debate. This way I can see how they hold up under scrutiny. I do realize however that the Mods are educating the pubic of what science is, what evolution is, and it is necessary to defend against those who have an agenda, but I no longer see them as much of a threat {court cases }, I just see ignorance that can be assuaged best by not getting into an entrenched debate, but rather a discussion on the new finding’s that are advancing our understanding of life. Its more fun and I have started threads and post on subjects such as metamorphosis and evolution, Qm and evolution, but they do not get near the attention as some hard headed kook with an agenda.

Quote:

Knowledge stands on one leg, and requires balance and attention.
Truth stands on its own two strong legs, and requires no proof.
Allen Mills