Science is close-minded

[Biochemist]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

I don't mean to post out of turn here but i saw the other day that Komodo Dragons use parthenognesis and the result is all male! I was amazed, I thought they had to be female!

That is pretty interesting. I had not heard of that.

[Biochemist]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

Is this really a possibility or are we just spinning our wheels? Science just follows the evidence, if it changes then it changes, no loss of face unless you refuse to see the truth.

I agree with that. I have (frankly) always been a little puzzled why people of faith often get irritated when someone attempts to expose "miracles" as rare natural occurrences. I think just about everything we experience is miraculous. I think I have a different view of what a "miracle" is.

Bio

[Biochemist]

Originally Posted by CraigD

..scientific investigation of the possibility of parthenogenesis in humans, regardless of its outcome and distinct form any religious connotations, is, I think, a strong example that science is not close-minded, but the opposite.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by CraigD

For the past century of so, especially in the US, there has been a tendency, I believe, to perceive scientific and religious thinking as innately incompatible, despite compelling evidence that for at least the preceding three centuries, many or most all professional scientists were also some form or professional clergy, and apparently sincerely religious. This perception is due, I think, to confusing close-mindedness with theism and religiousness.

I think it is closed minded on both sides. I can't tell you how many posts here overtly assert that theists are a) delusional, b) non-scientific, or c) both.

Originally Posted by CraigD

A characteristic of open-minded theists and deists, which include many pre-twentieth Century scientists and present day professional clergy/scientists, is both scientific and theological open-mindedness. Acknowledging the possibility of parthenogenesis in humans is an example of scientific open-mindedness. An example of theological open-mindedness is the attitude that the character of God may be very different than that described in religious scripture, and is revealed by science. In contrast, the belief that scientific results that contradict religious scripture must be incorrect and be rejected is an example of theological close-mindedness.

Agreed again. But (frankly) I don't know of an example where science contradicts scripture (although I am really only talking about the Bible). It just contradicts folks interpretation of the Bible.

Great post, CD

[Biochemist]

Originally Posted by CraigD

I’ve never before encountered the suggestion that Turner’s syndrome can cause parthenogenesis. Do you have a source for your claim that it is plausible, HydrogenBond?

I started this one CD. I suggested that a "virgin birth" could plausibly be generated by parthenogenesis, but the offfspring would have to be female (from a female parent) unless the parent was XXY. This would, essentially, combine two extremely rare events (human parthenogenesis and Turners mosaic). Turners would not "cause" parthenogenesis. It would just be required (I think) to get a male offspring form a female parent by parthenogenesis.

[Biochemist]

Originally Posted by Turtle

In other words, science is open-minded to the possibility that Jesus was a hermaphrodite?

A Turner's mosaic human is not hermaphroditic. Further, if Turner's mother had a male child, the child would probably be XY, or genetically normal.

[Moontanman]

Ok before this patting each other on the back goes too far i think it should be pointed out that there is no evidence for human parthenogenesis or natural parthenogenesis for any mammal. mammals do not work that way genetically, such an organism would not have a complete set of genes and would not survive. Not going to happen in nature no way no how, there is some evidence it might be done in a lab but even that is unlikely to result in a complete human fetus.

[Moontanman]

Turner's mosaic is not a way to get a male child by parthenogenesis, I looked it up, no way no how.

Symptoms of Turner Syndrome
Turner syndrome can cause a wide variety of symptoms, ranging in severity from minor cosmetic issues to major heart defects. Almost all people with Turner syndrome have short stature and loss of ovarian function. Some other symptoms of Turner syndrome can include problems with breast development, infertility, short fingers and toes, and kidney problems.

http://genetics.emedtv.com/turner-sy...-syndrome.html

[Biochemist]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

Ok before this patting each other on the back goes too far i think it should be pointed out that there is no evidence for human parthenogenesis or natural parthenogenesis for any mammal.

I believe you are correct. The problem is that we would not likely know of a parthenogenetic birth if it occurred.

I did hear that there was a research project in the UK (sometime between 1960 and 1980) where researchers tried to find daughters and mothers that were genetically identical. I could not find a reference to that work that last time I looked.

Bio

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Biochemist

I believe you are correct. The problem is that we would not likely know of a parthenogenetic birth if it occurred.

No, it cannot occur, we haven't been kissing anything it doesn't occur.

I did hear that there was a research project in the UK (sometime between 1960 and 1980) where researchers tried to find daughters and mothers that were genetically identical. I could not find a reference to that work that last time I looked.

Bio

You heard about? You heard about? I heard about a civilization on the moon that had humanoids with wings, would that be good enough to post as evidence for a civilization on the moon? I looked up Turner Syndrome and parthenogenesis and found out your premise is complete nonsense.

[Biochemist]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

You heard about? You heard about?

Calm down Moon. This started as a hypothetical discussion.

Sheesh.