On the definition of free will!

[Doctordick]

I have a question to ask all you brilliant thinkers: does the fact that my car automatically opens the throttle of the carburetor whenever it is close to stalling imply my auto engine has free will? That question is much deeper than most of you will comprehend.

Have fun -- Dick

PS I have had a little liqueur so I beg your indulgence.

[Turtle]

always happy to be the first to respond to one of your challenging insights Doc. i'm not drunk but i wish i were and will reply as if i were.

Q: does the fact that my car automatically opens the throttle of the carburetor whenever it is close to stalling imply my auto engine has free will?

A: no; it only implies that the carburetor has free will.

[Jway]

Turtle, your use of emoticons is very good IMO.

DD - I zoomed right on in the word "automatically" in inquiry you raised. With that in mind, I would say it does imply the engine is demonstrating free will.

If - the car does NOT automatically open the throttle of the carburetor whenever it is close to stalling - then this too would be demonstration of free will.

And IMO, this response is much deeper than most of will comprehend.

[lawcat]

Proceed with abundance of caution. Throtling valve is operated by the driver, and therefore is not subject to its own free will, but the will of the driver. This is not to say that it does not have free will, but in this situation all we can say is that the valve is not expected to operate under its own free will, even if it had one.

So, I say, whether the throttling valve has free will is irrelevant. The question is whether the valve operates as expected--in accordance with the will of the driver. If it does not, we open the hood and adjust it to do as expected.

I would call this failure a malfunction, or a mechanical error, but not a failure of valve's will to comport with the will of the driver. Nonetheless, DD you are free to view it as a failure of the free will. But if you are to impose your will on this free wheeling entity, proceed with abuundance of caution, because most free will entities do not respond well to duress.

[Buffy]

I think the example only obfuscates the core question: What *is* the definition of "free will?"

I know that my last car's engine had free will: it worked whenever it felt like it. If that means it had "intent" or even simply a "stochastic optimizing algorithm" I'm not sure whether that qualifies as "free will."

So, define your terms, Doctor.

Correctamundo! A word I've never used before, and hopefully never will again,
Buffy

[lemit]

In the spirit of the "Can robots make ethical decisions?" thread, if an SUV were approaching from behind and your throttle could escape by accelerating, but there are two pedestrians in a crosswalk in front of it who would be killed if it did, what would it do?

Would its decision-making ability be affected if it were using ethanol?

--lemit

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

*name omitted to protect the guilty*-
PS I have had a little liqueur so I beg your indulgence.

Sissy! If you had managed to slurp up just a bit more before posting you might have found yer answer....sheesh!...gettin all philosophic after only a lil liqueur....personaly I don't git so without much liquor (over-proof rum in my case)

Your car has a carb?!?! wow! a livin' fossil!!

Automajicly opens ?!?!?

Your car is possessed!!!!.....sooooooooo....the demon has freewill and it amuses him to keep your engine running.......for the moment....I recommend an exorcism before he changes his mind

[Doctordick]

Originally Posted by Buffy

So, define your terms, Doctor.

As I said, I was somewhat inebriated when I made that post, but you centered in on exactly the issue I was talking about. Exactly how does one define “free will” so that it becomes something which can be logically identified and not just a impression one has.

You know, I really don't understand why you don't comment on my posts more often. I have never seen you make a post which didn't make sense to me.

Nice to hear from you -- Dick

[Rade]

.....Exactly how does one define “free will” so that it becomes something which can be logically identified and not just a impression one has.....

and the answer is ......

[jedaisoul]

Originally Posted by Doctordick

does the fact that my car automatically opens the throttle of the carburetor whenever it is close to stalling imply my auto engine has free will? That question is much deeper than most of you will comprehend.

Perhaps I lack imagination, but I don't see any free will in this. It would seem that your car has an engine management system that prevents stalling. If so, the system neither has nor requires free will. It simply responds to the commands given to it by the the designer(s) of the system (who, presumably, have free will).

Am I missing something?

Is this a question about the ability of systems without free will to appear to exercise free will, due to the nature of their programming? If so, I'm not sure that an automobile engine management system is a good example.

It is an example of entities without self awareness and free will showing awareness of their surroundings, and reacting accordingly? Such entities include plants and computer systems. Even our own autonomic reflexes (e.g. knee jerk) fall into that category. If so, I still don't see the relevance to free will, unless you are suggesting that such responses exhibit free will?