[Qfwfq]

Originally Posted by Abstruce

There are experiments that have proven that enough energy can be extracted to provide an over unity of the processes. Yet all energy is accounted for in the form of thermal energy and there must be an energy source.

Only if you liquify the refrigerant by cooling it with a thermostat at a lower temperature. Without a temerature difference, your Carnot cycle will reduce to a back and forth going, along the same isotherm, and will convert no heat into other forms of energy.

[Windsor]

Originally Posted by Abstruce

There are other versions of this theory that have been produced and soon will hit the mass market.

Consider my interest peaked.. can you provide any links to research these other 'versions'?

[Abstruce]

Originally Posted by Windsor

Consider my interest peaked.. can you provide any links to research these other 'versions'?

Ok here it is. but your not going to believe it.

This is the technowledge.

http://www.rle.mit.edu/media/pr147/33.pdf

This is where the technowledge came from.

http://www.boblazar.com/

Open this link to see the Reactor and how it works.

Username: papoose - Password: sector
http://www.boblazar.com/closed/MPGdownload/reactor.mpg

[Kayra]

Originally Posted by Tomo
… I was thinking it would be cool if there was a device that absorbed the heat (energy) from the surrounding air and turned the heat energy into electricity.

Originally Posted by CraigD

Such a thing is, in principle, possible, without violating any thermodynamic laws.

If i understand this correctly, you are saying that it is not against the laws of thermodynamics to have an heat engine that has a heat input and no heat sink?

Would this not allow the engine in theory to be 100% efficient?

Sorry for the confusion, I am probably misreading this.

[CraigD]

Originally Posted by Kayra

If i understand this correctly, you are saying that it is not against the laws of thermodynamics to have an heat engine that has a heat input and no heat sink?

Correct. All thermodynamics requires is an increase in net entropy. This can be done by increasing the temperature of a cool sink, or, in the case of an engine based on Szilard’s solution to Maxwell’s “demon” question, by disordering something at the same average temperature as its surroundings.

The latter is not a very practical approach. It requires a fantastically efficient physical machine, and will only convert uniform heat into organized physical work until it’s memory - one bit of which must be used for every cycle of the machine – is full. Resetting the memory so that the engine can continue working requires at least as much organized work as the engine produced

Would this not allow the engine in theory to be 100% efficient?

No more so than any heat engine

Sorry for the confusion, I am probably misreading this.

The main point of Szilard’s engine is to illustrate the relationship between entropy and information, a profound, but potentially confusing relationship.

[Qfwfq]

The thermodynamic definition of entropy is only by difference, delta Q over T, whereas the "real" definition is statistical.

[Abstruce]

Originally Posted by Kayra

Originally Posted by Tomo
… I was thinking it would be cool if there was a device that absorbed the heat (energy) from the surrounding air and turned the heat energy into electricity. .

I have seen this accomplished using Refergerents, however I am having difficulty finding the example. I will post it when I find it.

Originally Posted by Kayra

If i understand this correctly, you are saying that it is not against the laws of thermodynamics to have an heat engine that has a heat input and no heat sink?

Would this not allow the engine in theory to be 100% efficient?

Sorry for the confusion, I am probably misreading this.

A Thermocouple used to convert heat energy to electrical energy is somthing we will see expanded in the future.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermocouple

[CraigD]

Originally Posted by Abstruce

A Thermocouple used to convert heat energy to electrical energy is somthing we will see expanded in the future.

They’ve been used a lot already – a lot of satellites and space probes use RTGs, which are simply hot piles of radioisotopes wrapped in thermocouples and cooling fins.

Used in reverse – to pump heat when connected to an electrical power source – thermocouples (usually called Peltier elements when used this way) can be found all sorts of common places. Hardware geeks like to use them to cool the silly, overclocked CPUs. I have a 12-volt one built into a cooler, which can be used as either a small, vehicle-portable refrigerator, or a warming oven, with the flip of a switch.

There are some serious practical and theoretical limits to the efficiency of thermocouples, though. At best, they’re around 10% efficient, in practive about 5%, poor when compared to the 25% of a Sterling cycle engine connected to an electric generator. However, when you’re interested in something with no moving parts, near zero-maintenance, and practically unlimited lifespan (nice in a mini refrigerator, a PC heatsink, or a spacecraft), efficiency isn’t too bad a price to pay.


The most exciting up-and-coming technology for converting heat differences to energy involve “photonic crystals” and other materials that can convert radiation of various frequencies, including the infrared, into frequencies suitable for photovoltaic cells. Since a narrow-frequency photocell can be 75%+ efficient, and photonic cells can approach 100% efficiency, a device based on these technologies might be able to convert heat into electricity (but not the reverse) with dramatically better efficiency than any existing heat engine.

[televox212]

heres something interesting
A Sound Way To Turn Heat Into Electricity

Basically, it uses the difference between hot and cold air in a tube to produce an air current, which then passes through a whistle, producing cohherent, non-chaotic sound energy of an exact frequency, from the chaotic heat energy...then this sound energy can be used to drive a peizo-electric (sp?) device which produces electricy... there is physically no limit to the number of these devices that can be connected into an array.

Its still at the early stages of development.

[mdraut]

As The Photovoltic Cells Are There Today Which Can Absorb The Selected Raditions Only And Convert Them Into The Electricity.
So If Infrared Rays Will Be Absorbed They Will Be Of Particular Radiations Only . And Then Again Heat Is Not Only Infrared Raditions But Also The Random Motion Of The Molecules And Atoms .
So It Won't Solve Your Problem