electromagnetic motor

[ryan2006]

That's why wind power generators work, right? You don't know what you are talking about we sent people to the moon.

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by ryan2006

That's why wind power generators work, right? You don't know what you are talking about we sent people to the moon.

Don't be insulting ryan, wind generators work by friction with the wind. When the wind turns the turbines blades some of the energy of the wind is transfered to the blades. This transfer of energy slows down the air that passed through the blades. If you tried to use the motion of the car as energy to turn a turbine the friction with the wind would slow down the car. That is why MPG improves if the car is more aerodynamic. Anything that would capture the energy from air passing over the car would slow down the car. Yes I know we sent people to the moon but that was done in complete compliance with the laws of thermodynamics. What you want to do violates the laws of thermodynamics.

[alexander]

Ryan, Moon is a very respected person, i'd appologise in your place. I have a hint that either you are not understanding something, or you are not explaining your thoughts in a manner that we may have a hint as to what the hell you are actually proposing.

Here is what we've been trying to explain to you

start with your axle regen:

We understand that you are basically saying to put magnets around the axles and coils around axles, and any time you are moving, you are generating back some power. This is true and this will work, and if we were in near weightlessness this may even have a decent degree of efficiency, like close to 80%, problem is that in order to facilitate any amount of power generation from motion, you need 2 things. One, you need magnets, two you need a coil. it matters little which one spins around what, rare earth magnets can be cast into the axle, this however already makes the axle heaver, and bulkier, then you need to add copper wound coils around the axles to generate power, and i dunno if you've ever played with any large electric motors, but they are heavy, and thus the design, unless you can come up with efficiency of over 1, will increase the total consumption of fuel in the end.

regeneration using air:

this one, so far, just sounds like you know not the first thing about car design, airodynamics, drag coefficients, oh and wind mills. problem is, that in order to regenerate power from wind, you need a device that will create wind resistence, and utilize that resitance to turn a motor. This creates 2 issues, one, you still have to have a motor to generate power, and two, you may be totally messing up the airodynamic factors of the vehicle by that decreasing fuel efficiency even more.

don't believe me? go down the road, open up your window, and stick out your hand, palm paralell to the ground.... this is the car body moving through the air at whatever speed you are going at. Now lets increase your hand's aerodynamic drag coefficient, by having to come up with a way to mount a turbine on the car. For you its simple, turn your palm till its perpendicular to the ground. Notice more resistance back? In a car, the motor has to fight that, the more resistance, the less efficient the vehicle...

Finally to wind mills. They are a stationary object positioned in places where air temp differences move large mass of gases, more or less, constantly. The pitch on the blade alows the air to flow around the blade in such a way that it constantly creates a low pressure terminal on the back side of the blade thus spinning the prop one way. What you dont see/feel is that there is energy that gets exerted on the wind mill, but because they are teathered to the ground, the construction of the structure pipes that pressure caused by wind and not used for spinning the blades, into the ground (which is obviously heavier and thus is less likely to move with that tiny amount of push....)


I'm tired, later

[Moontanman]

Don't forget that turning a magnet inside a coil of wire to generate electricity also generates friction with the magnetic field. If you don't believe this try turning a generator by hand.

[GAHD]

Essentially your best bet for a setup like you describe is to have electric motors in 2 wheels, and a standard drivetrain in the others. you brake with and accelerate using the electric motirs to extend in city driving, otherwise the system has no advantage over a pure EV or Pure gasoline vehicle.

mind-you, for in city driving that's quite the savings.

Some EV links:
EVA/DC - Build an EV cronicles of how-to
Motor*Magnets*::*Emovendo... some assembly required
http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~elec201/Book/basic_elec.html - Wire it
PML Flightlink - Hi-Pa drive™ - Plug & play

Originally Posted by ryan2006

That's why wind power generators work, right? You don't know what you are talking about we sent people to the moon.

Here you're best off not trying to take advantage of idleing energy from neutral, but rather to just have the motor direct drive a generator for periods of time. That lets you keep the Gas engine running at peak rpm efficiency at all times, and with a pure electric drivetrain you wouldn't have to start the engine too often for in-city driving..

[alexander]

Originally Posted by moon

Don't forget that turning a magnet inside a coil of wire to generate electricity also generates friction with the magnetic field. If you don't believe this try turning a generator by hand.

oh yeah, totally, even with magnetic bearings it's still pretty hard to do...

Originally Posted by gahd

but rather to just have the motor direct drive a generator for periods of time.

Yes, i would say so too, and direct drive electric motor is a lot more efficient then driving the car off the gas/diesel engine, increasing total efficiency .

[ryan2006]

First of all I'm sorry I insulted. Second, what is a direct drive? Can't a DC motor be applied to the mechanisms of the axls? So when the wheels turn it is creating heat/electricity like a wind generator? Also, can aerodynamics of the material include some kind of wind pore so that when the automobile faces wind it turns that into energy?

[alexander]

Ryan, direct drive means simply that the axle is directly attached to the cummutator/brushgear assembly of the dc motor. That means there is no gears in the middle either, which simplifies the assembly, decreases amount of parts, increases efficiency, decreases heat produced, etc.

Can't a DC motor be applied to the mechanisms of the axls?

no, it would be counter productive...

as to the

wind pore

No you can't the only way i can conceive of something like this, and mind you wind isn't directly powering this, but you can make the body out of a material that generates electricity from a temp differential between inside of the car, somewhere hot, like as a part of a cooling system of the engine, and outside. Here you benefit from moving air, because it will cool the material making it produce more power.

Problem is, that it's not the lightest of materials, and thus you are taking a hit on productivity and cost vs what you get out of it.

If you ask me, design a car that has the smallest air drag coefficient, and use as little of the lightest material as you can get away with, without sacrificing rigidity etc. And you would get more benefit out of that then from any wind-based power regeneration...

[ryan2006]

Wind pores included in the outer body which are made out of a nanosheath may have some benefit. Including in the chemical construction of materials needed to achieve this may include titanium. Including pores on a vehicle open the mechanism to water which like you say could be used to cooling the engine unless you were going to use the waste heat to produce more power. Friction of air to materials could be reduced by allowing air to be used by these pores to not only cool but to generate power as it then would exit the back of the vehicle.

Coils around the axel. The axel made of earth metal magnets you say would create more weight than necessary? How?

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by ryan2006

First of all I'm sorry I insulted. Second, what is a direct drive? Can't a DC motor be applied to the mechanisms of the axls? So when the wheels turn it is creating heat/electricity like a wind generator? Also, can aerodynamics of the material include some kind of wind pore so that when the automobile faces wind it turns that into energy?

Ryan, any attempt to extract energy from the motion of the car will slow down the car and result in using more gasoline to power the car. Regenerative braking is the only way to extract energy from the motion of the car with out causing the car to use more energy to make up for your attempt to extract energy. making the car more efficient in some way is always the best way to go but adding weight and friction defeats the whole process.