electromagnetic motor

[ryan2006]

Moontanman, I am happy that this post has "sparkled" some discussion. You have been my worst critic, but I am learning that no good idea comes to completion after all the facts are in and understood.

Do you still think that brake regeneration is the only way to increase mileage? I swear that if you are wrong about motion generating power that I will find you on this sight and have one big laugh.

I think you know a lot, but for some reason I just have a gut feeling that it could work. It is just a feeling. I may be wrong and then you could look me up and rub it in

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by ryan2006

Moontanman, I am happy that this post has "sparkled" some discussion. You have been my worst critic, but I am learning that no good idea comes to completion after all the facts are in and understood.

Do you still think that brake regeneration is the only way to increase mileage? I swear that if you are wrong about motion generating power that I will find you on this sight and have one big laugh.

I think you know a lot, but for some reason I just have a gut feeling that it could work. It is just a feeling. I may be wrong and then you could look me up and rub it in

I'm not interested in rubbing anything in Ryan, your ideas are ideas we all have until we learn about friction and why there is no way to generate free energy. Any attempt o generate power from a moving vehicle will cause friction. friction is the enemy. You want to shoot for less friction not more. that is why eliminating the drive train for electric motors at the wheels is a good idea. it is difficult to see how that generating electricity from a rotating shaft that is already going to move will generate friction but when you think of the fact that to generate electricity takes work and work makes friction you can see the idea more clearly. don't stop thinking, more energy efficient vehicles is always a good idea. The more people we have thinking about this problem the better it is.

[ryan2006]

Now do you see why a vehicle can run on motion? Pehaps a vehicle can run on the motion of light?

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

(from the thread unblockable pop-ups) Alex- the kit is about 1500 pounds for just the body, or about 9000 pounds for a full kit (partly assembled)

Alex-You didn't read much into it, did you? i said a car that weighs 1500lb, not 130lb,

Sorry bout that one, upon reread....uuuuhhhhhh...yeah...Quite the blond moment....no excuses...though the beer was tastin' reeeeally good when I read the post.

Ok, first of all, your 100cc bike is a 2 stroke, and we need to clearly state that, where as i was talking about a much more clean-burning 4 stroke, that will do only about 60,

And yes, you will get 75 miles to a galon in the Peel, but its a 2 stroke scooter motor that smokes like a mother... well you know what, it's not very environmentally friendly, if you know what i mean

I'm actually experimenting with using veg oil in place of 30 weight or two-cycle oil in premix fuel for my 50cc...so far the results are looking promising as far as reliability is concerned.

(and i mean to say this jokingly ofcourse, don't take this as an insult or anything you know if i lived in your neighborhood, we'd be drinking beer and riding like all the time )

Yeah, I believe so

[alexander]

Yeah, i should like put $ signs around the currency or something $pounds$ or something, it does sound a bit confusing

Yeah, I believe so

While 1
Do

sleep 172800

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Loop
Fixed, upon Distrubd's request (notice the order didn't change, context did, hehe)

[Moontanman]

Now do you see why a vehicle can run on motion?

Uh, No.

Pehaps a vehicle can run on the motion of light?

Uh, No. a vehicle can run off of electricity generated from the energy of light (not it's motion) but it really isn't practical due to the amount of solar cells need to get enough power. It wouldn't hurt if you covered your vehicle with solar cells as long as their weight wasn't too great. Every little bit helps.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Ok, first of all, your 100cc bike is a 2 stroke, and we need to clearly state that, where as i was talking about a much more clean-burning 4 stroke, that will do only about 60,

I don't know...a buddy O' mine has a 110cc alcahol powered
racing cart (4 stroke) that hits a buck-thirty.

Yeah, i should like put $ signs around the currency or something $ or something, it does sound a bit confusing

I figured you slipped and added extra zeros...you gotta admit 150lbs for the body 900lbs for the whole vehicle sounds reasonable.

Now to try to explain this...

O.k. you have a 30Hp electric motor with 45'lbs of torque from zero Rpm to 3500 Rpm
Attached to it a fixed ratio driveline capable of thirty MPH.

To get that torque from 0 Rpm to top speed the motor will draw roughly 140% of it's sustainable duty cycle. Surge loads are part of starting any electric motor and generaly the max. is +40 percent of the maximum opperational load meaning the motor can only reasonably sustain this type of load for 6 of 10 minutes without overheating. This is called 60% duty cycle because you can only sustain it for the afforementioned 6 of 10 minutes continuous opperation, where as 100% duty cycle means you can sustain opperation at this level continuously for as long as you wish. Your power supply whether it be battery or generator or even solar have similar limitations (and generally have specified duty cycles for surge and continuous loads with the surge load being about 60% duty cycle or 140% of continuous opperating load).

Back to the motor
This means that until the motor is at a sustained speed it will draw more power than it will consume to maintain a fixed speed under load.
As you may understand it is far easier to maintain a given speed than to get to it regardless of method of propulsion and that using different gear ratios make it easier to get to the same speed rather than to utilise a fixed drive ratio. (a single speed bike vs. a ten-speed for example)

Let's assume the motor is being used to propel a small car 1500Lbs with driver...Now you have the full surge load from 0MPH until 30Mph as well as a portion of it over the duration of any incline you encounter.

This is where variable drive ratios prove beneficial by reducing the initial load on the motor you allow it to accelerate more quickly thus reducing the time
it's at it's maximum duty cycle thereby reducing overall power consumption to get to speed.
Simply fixed ratios make the motor work harder under acceleration.

To offset this you can gear the motor to make acceleration easier, BUT this will also mean it will have to spin faster at top speed which will also increase power consumption...Again a variable final drive allows for the best mix of easier acceleration and more efficient crusing at top speed by allowing the motor to turn more slowly for the same speed and loading.

By allowing easier acceleration you allow for a less powerful motor to do the same work as a more powerful one.
Example. For normal road use a 100HP car is just as good as a 200HP car of the same type until it's time to fuel up.
In the case of electric vehicles a more powerful motor means more batteries are required for the same range, which means a good deal more weight which of course means more power is required to move the vehicle, which will yield diminshed cargo capabilities or shorter range (with fewer batteries).

This just like with any other engine is a balancing act of power vs. weight vs. speed vs. range...To get the best of all you must make concessions and either decide at what speed you want it to be most efficient or offer an assortment of drive ranges which allow it to be efficient at several speeds.

Don't forget generators under load place the engine driving them under similar loads to the drive-motor (you can only harvest as much power as you put in)
meaning to drive a 100hp electric motor you must have a generator capable of powering a 100hp motor for sustained durations as well as produce enough power for the duration of the surge load at startup and during acceleration...And of course that means that the engine driving the generator must make at least 100hp as well and be able to push through the additional loads of startup and acceleration. Efficiency of Diesel-electric hybrids comes from maintaining a constant speed at the engine thus eliminating the extra fuel consumption of varying engine speeds and by allowing the engine to be built to be most efficient at a speed specific to the needs of the generator.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Originally Posted by alexander

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Oh wait, i meant the other order, first ride then drink

Depends...on the trails drinkin' and ridin' frequently occur simaltaniously, though there is often alchahol abuse (Ie. spilled beers)....But the real drinkin' doesn't start till the engines are cold and the smoke has cleared...we're not entirely stupid.
On the blacktop the reverse is manditory.

[alexander]

fixed, upon your request

don't know...a buddy O' mine has a 110cc alcahol powered
racing cart (4 stroke) that hits a buck-thirty.

ok, key words here are alcohol powered (what a waste of perfectly good alcohol, i mean HOW does he live with himself after driving the damn thing?)

first of all, alcohol produces much less heat, which alows you to push more of it into the cylinder and run at higher revs safer then you normally could, and thus make more power... safer... and cooler

i'll give you an example of what happens when you tune an engine to run on ethanol. Koenigsegg is putting out their infamous CCXR, which is an e85-tuned CCX, CCX made 800 bhp out of a 5 liter v8, CCXR is making 1054 HP from the same based motor, now tuned specifically for the alcohol-based fuel.

a gas-powered 110 will not do 120mph, i oftenly ride a kx110, there is no way, even with the 4th gear, to take it past 60, on the pavement mind you, with street tires and lightened rims!

now the other thing too is that it may have started off as a 110, i see it all the time, a big boar kit will give it more out of the same case (and it will still say 110 on it)

lastly, do you have a way of confirming that it goes 120, the speedo may go up to 120, but more oftenly then not, they won't go anywhere that fast.

And this is not just my opinion, i have talked to 4 experts, one of which builds alcohol drag bikes, and has been doing that for more then 45 years, building and racing drag bikes that is, he is now retired and continues kicking butt on the track (he does mostly bracket racing, but if you are willing to throw down 1500-2000, he'll race you for real, that turbo cranks to over 35lb btw), one is an engine mechanic, one of his things to do is taking a brand new (almost every year) gsxr-1000 motor and making into a turboed motor with automated nitris injection, with fully automated pneumatic shifting, and doing 1/4 miles at high 7s still slipping the 300 wide tire at the end, as well as building motors for stock cars. The last 2 guys i have talked to have been working 30 years each, building, fixing, rebuilding and riding bikes, quads, jet-skis, sleds, carts, and anything that they could get their hands on. The above is a cumulative opinion of them as well, so please don't just "well my friend said". And i may talk to another friend of mine that also builds stock cars, and races them, but has also done go carts, etc, and has built quite a few...though haven't seen him in ages if you are still insisting on the 120 in a stock 110cc cart...

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Well you asked so here it is I've actually watched him race it a Lake Erie Speedway. (L.E.S. is a NASCAR sanctioned high bank race track about a half mile from my home.) During qualifying they announce the speed and time for each driver.

though haven't seen him in ages if you are still insisting on the 120 in a stock 110cc cart..

Who said anything about stock? I said 110cc alcahol fed racing cart....you know high comp. pistons, etc.etc. But it still has a displacement of 110cc. no big bore kit, no stroker kit. They're not allowed.